GT86/BRZ/FR-S Manifold/Headers From Tuning Developments

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

40 minutes ago, S18 RSG said:

Be interesting to see that setup on a car which dyno'd similar to Steve's. The stock car looks like it was 10hp down on Steve's, and subsequently after tune it's still 10hp down.

Torque curve looks great though.

This was a stock car to begin with, Steve had bolt on upgrades already when it arrived so not a true 'stock' car.

 

This still has the second CAT and the factory exhaust fitted too, its marginally louder than stock but drives much much better than stock  

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[Nicebiscuit 655]

Better comparison is with the chart on page 5 - that's stock as well, but with the EL manifold.

A sample of two isn't really representative - but seems like the two cars started roughly the same at 185bhp ish

So looks like EL might be the way to go if chasing ultimate numbers, but then it won't make THAT noise. You pays your money and you makes your choice

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[S18 RSG 429]

Neither chart is a good comparison. One started with 175hp, one started with 178hp, the UEL car started with under 170hp.

Even so, they all ended up with the same, or very similar mods, yet the UEL car was 10hp down on the EL. I know EL is the way to go for ultimate numbers, but I'm surprised the difference is so vast. The Tomei systems were within 2 or 3hp peak, and similar with other equivalent systems. Therefore, the tests for TD's manifold are either not comparable, or the UEL truly is significantly worse off than EL.

[Mark-in-Stoke 488]

A new back to back same car comparison needed if it"s that different..

[Nicebiscuit 655]

Neither chart is a good comparison. One started with 175hp, one started with 178hp, the UEL car started with under 170hp.

Even so, they all ended up with the same, or very similar mods, yet the UEL car was 10hp down on the EL. I know EL is the way to go for ultimate numbers, but I'm surprised the difference is so vast. The Tomei systems were within 2 or 3hp peak, and similar with other equivalent systems. Therefore, the tests for TD's manifold are either not comparable, or the UEL truly is significantly worse off than EL.

Either you're looking at the wrong numbers or I am. The green numbers are the 'before' right?

So stock the UEL car makes similar numbers to the stock figures for the EL car on p.5 (there's no 'before' trace on that graph but it's quoted lower down)

The 'after' figures are a peak of 210 on the EL car and 203 on UEL so that's 7bhp down.

The car with other mods and EL makes 213.

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[S18 RSG 429]

I think you're right now I've looked again.

In that case, the first EL graph and the UEL graph are a reasonable comparison, suggesting that by choosing UEL rather than EL, you're losing out on 7hp and 6ftlb of torque, just to get the sound, especially given that there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the torque curves between the two.

As far as I'm aware it's been accepted for some time that there is very little difference (literally 2-3hp max) between EL and UEL, trebling that gap may be enough to start turning more people away (despite the fact that the differences would be minuscule when behind the wheel)

[Nicebiscuit 655]

Or equally the 'glass half full' interpretation might be that TDs EL manifold design is particularly good...

Guess we'll never know unless someone has a spare week to spend in Warrington with their car and a big box full of different manifolds! There's clearly some differences between different set ups given the experience with the Tomei further up the thread...

But yeah - on evidence so far - for max performance at TD - go EL.

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[Rich 378]

Hard to compare when the manifold is on different engines really. My car has a (non-TD) UEL and made 216 bhp on their dyno for instance. I think there's enough variability in the engines that 7 bhp could be almost anything.

[Tom B 44]

Anyone had their TD manifolds ceramic coated? Any ideas on the cost? 

[Deacon 1357]

I've had some quotes for manifold and overpipe coating that range from about £300 to about £800. Not the TD one specifically though.

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

Tom, I should anticipate around the £300 upwards region for a manifold and the 'downpipe'

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[long-gone 152]

Sorry off-topic but, please would you get printouts to show ft·lbf rather than HP for the torque figures?

[long-gone 152]

Mike, you've done a few now, enough to compare?

Are you seeing much difference between unequal and equal length?

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

23 hours ago, daidaiiro said:

Sorry off-topic but, please would you get printouts to show ft·lbf rather than HP for the torque figures?

They're scaled the same on each axis Ian, torque is measured in lb.ft  

 

1 hour ago, daidaiiro said:

Mike, you've done a few now, enough to compare?

Are you seeing much difference between unequal and equal length?

 

EL seems to make slightly more power, however not enough that it would stop me from going for UEL, should I want the exhaust note.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[billdingo 14]

How far up into the engine bay do these come?

Wondering as in the future I may go FI and tho I realise you do quite a nice looking turbo kit, I would like to keep options open for superchargers as well.

[Nicebiscuit 655]

This far...

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[billdingo 14]

14 hours ago, Nicebiscuit said:

This far...

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Thought I'd replied to this last night.

Thanks for the pic, looks like a reasonable amount of room there still. Maybe not enough for a centrifugal, but I'd go turbo over one of them anyway.

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

Thanks Joe  

 

Billdingo, if you have any questions feel free to drop me a PM or give me a call.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

 

 

[TTR 509]

9 minutes ago, Mike@TD.co.uk said:

 

 

Damn impressive! is that on an EL or a UEL? Cat back? Decat? 

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

That was:

 

TD EL Manifold

Overpipe

Second Decat

CAT Back (With extra silencer for noise restrictions)

 

 

[Mike@TD.co.uk 467]

 

Above - Full Exhaust & Tomei Manifold & ECUTeK Tune - Versus Full Exhaust & TD EL Manifold & In House ECUTeK Tune (Thanks for the photo Kev!)

[Mike 458]

I need to stop looking at this thread...

[S18 RSG 429]

17hp gain over a different EL manifold and tune? Sounds like there were issues with Kev's car/tune if he gained that much. That's a similar gain as you'd expect compared to stock.

[Lauren 2259]

5 hours ago, S18 RSG said:

17hp gain over a different EL manifold and tune? Sounds like there were issues with Kev's car/tune if he gained that much. That's a similar gain as you'd expect compared to stock.

Yep, we thought his Tomei manifold wasn't cutting it, when I talked to Kev about it before. But obviously he's gone for the TD EL with their remap over what he had before. His figures were low on the rolling road shoot out last time round at TD. You could see compared to mine that his fuelling was on the rich side when it didn't need to be. 

Quite tempted now, but not sure what to do in terms of a cat.