First test drive and review/impressions

[saxon 3]

I've just done my first test drive of the GT86 and thought some of you might enjoy reading my impressions - photos have been removed

Exterior

No surprises on the exterior really - I think I have seen enough of them to know this is one very sleek and attractive car.  To me the lines have always been just fundamentally 'right' in the same way that an Aston V8 Vantage, E-type, TVR Griffith or Lotus Esprit just looks right.  Of particular interest here is the fact that there is a mid cycle refresh coming which the dealer says will be here towards the end of the year.  The refresh is a revised front grille (which doesn't look as nice as the current one), revised rear lights and splitter that don't look much different and a subtle refresh to the interior with the addition of audio controls on the steering wheel and more 'soft touch' high quality materials (which is appealing).  The dealer informed me that if I ordered this week my car would be delivered in September - which would make it one of the last of the current design.  This doesn't bother me in principle but financially may be more costly unless I can mitigate that with a hefty discount.


Interior accomodation
The interior comes in a variety of different trim options and unfortunately I really wanted to see the two tone red and black leather and Alcantara but the dealer didn't have one in stock.  I saw the black fabric and there's no way I would buy one of those as it doesn't in any way feel special enough.  I also saw the black leather with red stitching which was very nice with a good premium feel.  I have to say the seat was utterly sublime - quite simply by far the finest car seat I have ever sat in by a million million miles.  It supports you without gripping you and I was very impressed indeed by the driving position.  I thought the Griffith had the best driving position I have ever experienced but the Toyota is a little better than that.  There's ample legroom even for someone like me with the legs of an emu bird and plenty of headroom too.  The Jag XK8 leaves me short on headroom so this was a welcome relief because I'm certainly not planning to buy a car that requires me to drive along with my head half cocked!  In essence though every normal saloon car I've ever driven requires you to have a driving position with your legs bent at the knees and some (including my old VW Passat) accentuate the discomfort by placing the pedals off centre.  This leads to cramp on drives over 3 hours and sends me crazy.  It's one of the reasons why I love a more sporting car such as the TVR Griffith and the Toyota GT86 because in my experience you get better support under the hips and knees and your legs are straight ahead on the pedals with very little bend at the knee.  I was so pleased to see that Toyota have arranged the GT86 like that with the pedals dead ahead and the legs stretched out.  The gear knob is perfectly positioned and is exactly where you want it to be:

The rear legroom was adequate for someone like my 11 year old daughter as long as the seat isn't pushed the whole way back - in which case there's bugger all.  Because the front has so much room you can however live with the seats halfway forward.  I would be very interested to know what height adjustment options there are on the front passenger seat??
 

 

 

I'm not sure a 5ft 9 inch Texan cheerleader would be comfortable on the back seat but for an average woman or a young teen it was fine.  The only frustration is that my Daughter's feet were essentially stuck under the seat in front.  I need to look into what options there are to raise the seat in front to enable her more flexibility in foot position.  Would it be comfortable for her for a blatt to a pub half an hour away on a Sunday? - yes, but a two hour journey would be more of a struggle I think if you can't easily reposition your feet.  On the plus side the rear seats were surprisingly wide and spacious and she had loads of head and shoulder room and that was a genuine surprise:

 

Practicality is enhanced by a surprisingly capacious boot.  Sure, I wouldn't be able to fit a chesterfield sofa in there, but two cabin bags and some of my wife's shoe collection undoubtedly.  The rear seats fold forward to provide enhanced load area

Switchgear and instrumentation

The instruments are beautifully laid out with the core instruments scuplted around the driver and they are extremely legible.  I liked the ergonomics, everything falls very easily to hand and even the milled aluminium heater controls had a nice tactile feel.  The stitched leather wheel nicely echoes the sporting intent.  There's a couple of plastics on the center console that aren't up to the standards of the very best and I hope that's one of the things they will address in the mid cycle refresh.  Overall though it felt like a very nice place to sit.  Coupled with a sublime driving position every control is just ideally placed and falls to hand.  You wouldn't need to read the owners manual to this car because everything is so intuitive
 

 

 

This car had the premium audio option which I would want - 10 speakers by JBL including a subwoofer.  The sound was very good but not as good as the Rockford Fosgate audio fitted to my wife's Mitsubishi Outlander which is supremely refined.  The JBL system by contrast was a bit 'thrashy' and lacking in smoothness.  I only listened to the radio and one CD though and it's possible the audio settings had been badly tuned by the dealer staff member who commutes to work in the car.  This will require further investigation on a second test drive.  It is of course miles better than the Saab or any normal car, but mildly disappointing considering the heritage of JBL and the number of speakers and amps. 

Driving Impressions

I've read thousands of words of reviews about the GT86 since I fell in love with it four years ago at the Goodwood Festival of Speed launch.  Most reviewers talked of superb handling but lack of torque so I was braced for that.  Coming from a TVR Griffith with 275lb/ft of torque nothing short of a Lamborghini or Mclaren was likely to be in the same ballpark!  The GT86 though surprised me with its urgency - especially for the first 10-20mph.  It absolutely leaps off the line like a scalded cat to a degree that it takes some mastery to accelerate from rest cleanly without wheelspin.  It really does feel like a car that wants to charge.  The car feels surprisingly urgent at any speed in practically any gear and on the A3 at 80mph dropping into fourth and flooring it saw us swept to 100mph in a wave of torque that most definitely pushes you back into your seat.  It's an enjoyable sensation and took me by surprise.  There were no obvious flat spots to the acceleration - it pulls harder than my 3.2 litre jag did and much harder than the Saab 9-3 turbo diesel does too at all points in the rev range.  It doesn't have the outright blistering savagery of a TVR that literally scares you when floored but it's a rewarding car to drive.  The engine makes some satisfying sounds too when driven enthusiastically (augmented I think by some kind of Toyota sound pipe).  The downside to all this however is the cabin noise.  Being a hardtop I expected the GT86 to sound quieter than my convertible Saab diesel but it was louder, considerably louder at motorway speeds.  The engine is quiet around town, rewarding to hear when driving enthusiastically but the 'road noise' (rather than engine noise) on the motorway at 80mph was a surprise.  I was genuinely disappointed by this because it felt as if you had to turn the radio up quite a bit to listen to radio 4 etc.  My overall experience with cars has been that refinement has been increasing in the past 20 years so that if you drove a 20 year old Golf your ears would be assailed whereas the latest generation would emit barely a whisper in the cabin.  Well the GT86 puts you right back in a 1980's golf!  Would it stop me buying the car - no, but it was certainly the biggest disappointment with it given I have a 42 mile motorway commute to work.  One thing worth stressing is that the A3 road surface does vary quite a lot around here and we drove a different section of it on the way out compared to the way back.  On the way out the cabin noisel level was unbelievably high but coming back it was noticeably quieter.  I think that part of the issue might have been the road surface so a further test drive is needed to evaluate that.

 

Aside from the engine and road noise other aspects were good, the gear change was superb barring some reluctance to engage second gear when the oil is cold.  The gears are very closely spaced so you do need to be very mindful of which gear you are engaging but I feel this feel would improve with time and experience with the car.  Gear changing though was at all times highly rewarding and the car made some lovely 'changing down' sounds.  In many ways the engine reminded me of a motorbike engine - it is very free revving indeed and I was left feeling that we have all been driving lazy diesels for too long and have forgotten how much joy a well engineered pentrol engine brings.  There's a musicality and freedom to such engines that makes driving them a much more rewarding experience. 

In terms of interior trim there were as you would expect absolutely no rattles or squeaks - it is a Toyota after all!

Handling

The GT86 from the off feels wonderfully planted.  The car feels very much 'one' with the driver in the same way something like a Lotus Elise does.  You absolutely do feel what it's doing and it transfers this information with unerring accuracy to the driver.  The GT86 actually sits on quite narrow tyres to enable you to turn the traction control off and enjoy yourself although that will have to wait until a second test drive.  I did however hurl it around a couple of roundabouts and it cornered far more predictably than the Griffith with the traction control on.  You can certainly corner very hard and the traction control did eventually dive in and start braking some of the wheels when I deliberately provoked it - with the system off I think you could certainly have a few brown trouser moments quite easily!! 

On the downside the ride is very definitely firm - firmer than my Griff (which is actually quite soft and comfortable by sportscar standards).  This results in a slightly annoying bobbing sensation over potholes, level crossings and bumps in the road.  The suspension travel is necessarily short and stiff and the damper rates seem quite high.  It is nowhere near as good as the Saab at soaking up bumps in town.  To its credit it doesn't make crashing noises over potholes or anything like that but it's not the most relaxing ride I've ever had and is the polar opposite of my Jag which was like riding on a magic carpet while being massaged by Amy Adams wearing a mink glove...

In Conclusion

I'm very glad indeed I booked a test drive to answer the question that's been bugging me for four years - what's a GT86 actually like?  Overall I really liked the car - it's extremely pretty, has the best seats in the world and would enable a keen driver to really enjoy their workaday commute as well as having enough performance to enjoy a spirited drive at the weekend.  It's a wonderful amalgam of what a Passat does and what a TVR does and part of the appeal for me is to be able to get some of my performance fix everyday.  Another aspect that appeals is the fact that in this I really could plan a huge trans-european thrash (a la Top Gear) to Le Mans or the Alps and have every expectation of getting there rather than ending up on a recovery truck which is an ever present risk with saomething like the TVR - or indeed any older classic.

It's fuss free motoring at it's best and offers the potential for driving enjoyment everyday at sensible cost.  I'm not sure there is anything else out there that provides this.  The NIssan 370Z is butt ugly and too expensive on fuel, the MX-5 is too effeminate, the Audi TT isn't as pretty and by all accounts not as rewarding to drive.

I'm waiting for the dealer to provide a finance quote but he reckons he can put one on my drive for less than £300 a month new.  If we're in that ballpark I will certainly take the missus and arrange a second test drive.  Delivery would be around September and the complicating factor is that the model refresh should be happening around the end of the year.  This means I will need to negotiate a pretty hard bargain on the old shape via Drivethedeal or Carwow or wait for the new shape to arrive and probably in truth pay more.  From what I've seen I prefer the lines of the current model as they've redesigned the front grille to be more aggressive and I think it's a bit OTT.  I'm more interested in what they're doing to the interior with supposedly better fit and finish.

Anyway that's all from me - hope you found it an entertaining and balanced read!
saxon





 

 

 

 

 

 

      

[Ade 517]

Nice review. Yes They didn't add much in the way of sound deadening to the car, I guess to keep weight down, but it doesn't help road noise.

I hope they improve the fit and finish for the new model as its one of my pet hates with this car all the rattles. 

 

Good to hear you likes how it drives.

[S18 RSG 429]

Nice little read that. Interesting to hear the point of view of someone else coming from a faster car, I shared similar thoughts when I bought mine.

One little note on the road noise/radio situation. Road noise I found was significantly improved when I changed tyres. I don't know if Primacies are renowned for being loud (mine had 2 Primacies and 2 random tyres), but when I changed wheels and switched to Vredesteins all around, the road noise was reduced a fair bit.

As for the radio, even at low speeds the standard stereo struggles to be heard. A good upgraded set of door speakers, along with a bit of sound deadening in the doors does wonders in this regard. Both worthwhile upgrades should you be continually concerned by this.

[Ade 517]

Those Focals are deffo on my list along with an android headunit.

[S18 RSG 429]

5 minutes ago, Ade said:

Those Focals are deffo on my list along with an android headunit.

Honestly makes a world of difference. 

[saxon 3]

Glad people enjoyed my impressions.  I'm particularly glad to hear that road noise could be reduced with a change of tyres.  The current plan is to keep the Griff and trade the Saab for the GT86 depending on whether or not I wait for a refreshed model or not.  The big question is if anything can be done to raise the passenger seat (i.e. where my wife would be sitting most of the time) to allow my Daughter's feet more room??  IS is the case that all GT86's only have a driver seat height adjuster but not one on the passenger seat??

saxon

[Deacon 1357]

5 minutes ago, saxon said:

Glad people enjoyed my impressions.  I'm particularly glad to hear that road noise could be reduced with a change of tyres.  The current plan is to keep the Griff and trade the Saab for the GT86 depending on whether or not I wait for a refreshed model or not.  The big question is if anything can be done to raise the passenger seat (i.e. where my wife would be sitting most of the time) to allow my Daughter's feet more room??  IS is the case that all GT86's only have a driver seat height adjuster but not one on the passenger seat??

saxon

It is only an adjustable drivers seat yes. 

[Nicebiscuit 655]

From the perspective of someone else who swapped a Saab for a GT86... I'm now a year in.

The rear seat is usable - my wife just has the passenger seat a bit further forward. We actually also have a practical family box but the kids want to go in the 86 though. Be careful though - how long are you planning to keep it? She won't be able to grow much...

Road noise isn't too bad in practice. I've been to the Alps and back in mine and it doesn't get worse at speed. Actually quite a competent long distance car. I use mine for work...

The power delivery is possibly the weakest aspect. (I came from a chipped 2.3 Aero ;-) ) but the rest of the car makes up for it. The interior quality isn't really noticeable after a while and all the important touch points are 'right'

I don't regret buying mine for a minute. I can't think of anything else as special feeling for anything like the money.

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[Nicebiscuit 655]

Oh - and if you REALLY want height adjustable passenger seat I wonder if you could fit an LHD drivers seat from a breaker?

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[Ade 517]

A chap on the other side, GT86Fun I believe, had some spacers machined to raise the passenger seat permanently for his Mrs. 

 

 

[long-gone 152]

Similar to OP and others above, I've also had a Griff, 350Z GT and SAAB 9³ turbo, traded in the Zed for the GT86.

My Griff was an early precat and the OE seats were terrible and the driving position not great. My seats were replaced with those from a Cerbera and they were much better, but still nowhere near as good as the GT86. Sounded glorious and went like stink though.

Clearly, the visceral roar of a pre-cat BV V8 is never going to be matched by a 2 litre flat four-banger, but the confidence inspiring handling and poise more than makes up for it - I'm way faster point-to-point in the GT86 than I ever was in the Griff. I always felt it was trying to kill me in a fibreglass and petrol fuelled fireball. Probably says as much about my driving skills as it does about the handling or lack thereof the Griff.

350Z was pretty quick in a straight line and fun to slide on track/airfield, but I found it a little too edgy anywhere near the limit on road. Poise, poise, poise, slide, slide, FECK!

SAAB, a great floater and probably the best 'ride' of any car I've owned, but a rocket ship it ain't. Far too wallowy and understeery unless some fairly serious dosh is invested - which would ruin the comfort and ride.

Just to add, my Griff 430 was a little louder and aggressive than most:

Edited April 13, 2016 by daidaiiro
Add photo of bling manifolds

[Lauren 2259]

Quite a comprehensive review there! I do know of someone raising the passenger seat 40mm which helped apparently with somewhere for the rear passenger to put their feet, so that might be an option. 

The stock audio is terrible. The JBL is a significant improvement but still not good enough. Thankfully it is easy to change all that, which is what I did. With a balanced system with a sub etc (not the tiny JBL one) and some control over the setup, it can help to drown out the road noise when cruising which I agree is quite high. I've done two trips round the Alps covering 2500 miles each time as well as a trip out to what was the old East Germany, some 1500 miles. It's great with the cruise control on, though just as much fun going up and down the various Alpine passes. 

You can actually improve the ride quality with some decent coilovers and a number of us have done that too. The stock car is just the beginning really. Just about everyone seems to individualise their car with aftermarket wheels, exhausts etc. 

The Primacy tyre is good fun, but they are not very progressive on the limit. Switching to some better tyres does make a good difference and you can still play if you want as long as you don't put silly wide wheels and tyres on of course. 

[saxon 3]

Many thanks to all of you for the interesting replies - the spacers in particular sound like a great idea for the passenger seat.  I'm also very interested to read that even the upgraded JBL audio isn't great (which is what I thought).  The question is Lauren should I just order a stock audio system rather than spending £1100 on the JBL factory upgrade?  If I do that how much realistically will I need to spend for an after market system better than the JBL one?  I've always been heaviliy into music and indeed used to review hi-fi for various magazines back in the day.  I'm not expecting to be able to equal the home set-up I have in a car, but something that isn't just boom, tizz and loud would be nice!  If anyone has done this how much did it cost and do you have any recommendations for audio specialists in the Surrey/Sussexz/Hampshire area?

Daidaiiro - it's fascinating how similar our car histories are and you're not alone in thinking your Griff is trying to kill you - it is!!  Mine is also a pre-cat 4 litre and the truth is they're brilliant in a straight line but very unpredictable on corners if they hit a bump so as a result I never drive the thing anywhere near the limit - it's too stressful!  It's at it's best on A-roads going to the pub just bumbling around and occassionally whooshing past slower traffic on the straights.  I can certainly see how a GT86 could outpace it point to point because of the far superior handling. 

The plan is to keep the TVR and swap the Saab for a GT86, those PCP schemes make it feel very affordable.  When I purchased my Griff back in the late 1990's for £23000 I was paying back nearly £600 a month for years - now I can put a new £25000 GT86 on the drive for half that - weird!

saxon

[long-gone 152]

Back then when you paid your final payment the car was yours. Today there'll be a sizeable balloon payment at the end or you send it back. You get nothing for nowt.

[Varelco 211]

4 hours ago, saxon said:

Many thanks to all of you for the interesting replies - the spacers in particular sound like a great idea for the passenger seat.  I'm also very interested to read that even the upgraded JBL audio isn't great (which is what I thought).  The question is Lauren should I just order a stock audio system rather than spending £1100 on the JBL factory upgrade?  If I do that how much realistically will I need to spend for an after market system better than the JBL one?  I've always been heaviliy into music and indeed used to review hi-fi for various magazines back in the day.  I'm not expecting to be able to equal the home set-up I have in a car, but something that isn't just boom, tizz and loud would be nice!  If anyone has done this how much did it cost and do you have any recommendations for audio specialists in the Surrey/Sussexz/Hampshire area?

 

I have the JBL sound system upgrade in my car, it's alright but nothing special, the bass and lows are good enough but the rest of it is mediocre. My advice as someone which has it, is to install an aftermarket system if you're willing to self fit it. Fortunately for me I had the JBL system installed FOC as good will gesture from Toyota because of late delivery of my car. It's also worth noting its unfair to compare £1100 worth of ICE to the JBL factory option as Toyota don't exactly hand you over a box of components for you to install  

[Nicebiscuit 655]

You still have to watch the 86 on a greasy road, purely because the standard tyres are almost designed to let go... I've changed tyres on mine - much better. It's certainly no TVR though - both of you have much bigger cojones than me. Beautiful to look at and listen to, but terrifying!

£1100 is a decent budget. I know Lauren spent more, but that's surely plenty for head amp and front speakers at least...

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[Lauren 2259]

I must admit, I'm very much into my music and not the drum and bass shite you frequently hear going round McDonald's. I spent £3K on a pro-install, but I didn't really skimp on anything as I wanted to do it properly. Obviously for that money I've got a top of the range Alpine head unit with satnav and DAB and all that as well digital sound processing courtesy of an Audison Bit 10 and very good speakers. I ditched everything from the stock system using none of it. I also have a 12" sub and amp in the boot keeping all my boot space as the entire boot floor was replaced. 

The results are astonishing, but for that much money you'd expect it really! Obviously you could do it for cheaper, though a sub is necessary I think to get some depth to the sound. 

[saxon 3]

Lauren,

Many thanks for that information and congratulations on such an amazing system - personally if music is important in your life I can well understand why you would invest in reproducing it in the best possible quality.  It never ceases to amaze me how people can understand how easy it is to tell the difference between say a Ford Mondeo and a McLaren 650S and yet for some reason even colleagues at work - airline captains and the like are astonished when they hear I use a £20-25k home cinema and hi-fi system and say that they don't think they could tell the difference between that and their £400 Sony or whatever!!  Of course you bloody can!! 

My wife had a £300 Aiwa midi tower system when we met.  She's irish and had no experience or even knowledge of high end hi-fi equipment.  Very early in our relationship I picked out my copy of Mary Black's 'Song for Ireland' on vinyl and stuck it on my Michell Gyrodec turntable.  After about a minute I turned around to see if she liked it and there were tears absolutely streaming down her face due to the impact of the music - she was totally unprepared for the emotional impact and intensity that a system of this calibre creates - and that rather than bass, treble etc is what high end audio is all about I think.

I have never had a really good in car system - but your post provides way too much temptation!

saxon

 

[Lauren 2259]

Saxon, thanks. I remember those terrible Aiwa midi systems. All midi systems were terrible for the most part. I've had separates since I was 16 in the search for decent audio.

I think you have to remember that most people aren't into their music, but there are some of us that are and care about the quality. It does make a world of difference and I admit with this car I wanted to treat myself to something special as though I've played around with various things in car audio over the years changing every stock head unit I've ever had and adding subs once I discovered the difference they made, I wanted a system that was well matched. So I did it properly. The GT is quite noisy at cruising speeds and it helps to have a bit of welly to cut all that out. I've found that by using subs with decent speakers you can take the bass load off of the front speakers using a high pass filter. The gem in my system is the Audison Bit  10 digital sound processor as it means that timings for the speakers can be set giving the impression that you are sitting in the middle of the car and drastically improving the stereo effect. I have done over 84K miles in three years so it was important to me to be able to turn it up and hit the cruise control on the motorway and just enjoy the sound quality.

[Nicebiscuit 655]

The biggest bang for the buck for me in audio comes near the bottom end. Just the first step up to a decent budget amp and speakers makes such a difference.

The thing that would put me off spending a lot of money on car audio is firstly that your competing with a lot of other noise and a less than perfect 'room', and secondly that you're actually concentrating on something else... (Audio driven emotional breakdown whilst driving definitely a no no ) but again every time I've spent modest amounts on car audio it reaps dividends.

In my Citroen I just cobbled something together out of various bits I happened to have - Pioneer head, Blaupunkt powered sub and stock speakers and was surprised how much better it was... Even driving factory speakers with a better amp seems to give benefits (I really wasn't expecting much - only threw it in because the bits were doing nothing)

The other thing to note with Lauren's system is the high end Alpine head with Satnav etc. If you didn't need nav then you could lop quite a bit off the head unit cost without sacrificing any audio quality at all.

If I do anything with the Toyota I'm going to incrementally spend until happy - and based on experiences on here I will go speakers first, then amp, then head unit, and then sub. And basically stop when 'good enough'

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[saxon 3]

Just spoken with an audio installer and he's going to come back with some suggestions.

I'm basically thinking Focal woofer and tweeter combo up front, upgraded Focal speakers in the rear sides, an extra amplifier and a sub in the boot.  Might see how good the existing head unit is with that before spending anymore.  I've given him a £1000-£1500 budget to work with. 

I'm a complete beginner with in car audio but have some questions:

1.  If I buy the car on a PCP deal will I have to put the car back to standard when I return it to the leasing co?  If I enlarge the rear speakers presumably that will involve cutting into the rear panels so that may be an issue... - Any views?

2.  I'm trying to understand the audio architecture.  If the existing head unit is capable of driving 6x speakers as standard will I even need an extra amplifier and if I do what exactly is it driving?

3.  What are the pro's and cons of active v passive sub?

Sorry if these are basic questions but grateful for some pointers.

Kind regards,

saxon

[Lauren 2259]

1. Yes unless you want to hand the car back with all the audio. Don't bother with rear speakers. Decent speakers in the front with tweeters ideally in the door tops and a sub in the boot is what you need. Given all the work I've done with my car I opted to pay the car off and keep it. Seemed much easier.

2. Seriously lose the rear speakers they are useless and you don't need them. The stock head unit is rubbish as it doesn't have any pre-outs for an amp which is what you need. There are ways around it if you're so inclined. 

3. I thought active was driven by an integrated amp and a passive wasn't. Go for the passive and three channel amp. One channel to drive the sub, the other two to drive the front speakers with a crossover for the tweeters. 

[nerdstrike 186]

I'd just like to say that after putting 1300 miles on a rental Nissan X-trail on a US road-trip, my '86 feels wonderful all over again. It has steering feel, a gear stick, and doesn't feel like it's going to fall over when you brake hard. CVT.... . Then there's the hand brake, climate control, looks, cornering stability, acceleration over 60mph and slightly better MPG. Wish I'd thrown a bit more cash at Avis in the US.

[Nicebiscuit 655]

Think yourself lucky. I just had a week with a Citroen C3. I'm not actually sure it was fitted with an engine at all...

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