Found damage on new car after a week

[jevvy 40]

Hi all I bought my gt86 a week or so ago from a snows Toyota dealer. After I got it home I noticed there was some paint on the passenger little side light, on closer inspection I found that the light was a little wobbly especially compared to the other side which is solid. I assume the bumper or part of the bumper was resprayed but its weird that there is over-spray on the side light as that means they didn't not remove the bumper or bother cleaning the light which to me seems very odd and likely a bodged job. Also the bumper doesn't sit completely flush with the wing as it does on the driver side. And in the corner there is a little bit of corrosion it seems where the bumper and wing probably rubbed together when it was damaged. To me the evidence points to a low speed hit but i suppose anythings possible. I will take the car to my local body-shop run by some family friends tomorrow and ask them if they can give me a quick assessment of the damage and whether there is anything lurking behind what I can see. In all honestly its very hard to spot and you wouldn't be able to see it unless you were looking for it. However its obviously something id want to get sorted at the dealers expense or be compensated for as it is something that would affect the resale value of the car. Aesthetically it doesn't bother me too much its just more the fact that its there and it definitely effects the value of the car. Can't believe I missed this when I looked around the car and when i asked if there was any damage he pointed out a minor scuff on one of the alloys (the front passenger one where the rest of the damage is) and said that is why a spare wheel was included.

Any and all advice would be appreciated and my main questions are

How to deal with the dealer and go about the whole thing. I just emailed them some pictures and explained it similarly to how I did here and will be giving them a ring tomorrow.

How bad the damage is assuming its just the corrosion, unflush bumper and a couple of minor nicks/scratches and wobbly light and a scuff on the top passenger corner of the number plate mount I'm assuming from the same bash

How to deal with the dealer if they are unhelpful, fingers crossed they are!

What would the value of the damage be and should i seek some sort of monetary refund and keep the car as is or should I look to have everything repaired or just reject the car completely.

Ill include some pictures of the issues and the car is a 15 plate black aero with 9000 miles and the JBL sound system and half leather seats sat nav and rear sensors. I paid 19350 for it with a spare wheel and a few other bits so adjusted probably around £19000ish for the car which i think is a cracking deal (if it wasn't damaged =P). Thanks in advance for all your wisdom and hopefully this will all get sorted without too many issues and i don't think I will lose any sleep over it anyhow!

[nikndel 509]

As you have accepted the car I would be suprised if you get anywhere but I hope I am wrong keep us posted

[Lauren 2259]

Just take it to the dealer. If they have sold it to you like that, then I would expect them to repair it for you. 

How come you didn't notice it when you were buying the car? 

[jevvy 40]

4 minutes ago, Lauren said:

Just take it to the dealer. If they have sold it to you like that, then I would expect them to repair it for you. 

How come you didn't notice it when you were buying the car? 

When I was having a good look at that corner of the car I'm pretty sure the salesman pointed out the scuff on the alloy again and had me have a good look at that and then I moved around and didn't notice this : ( That's the only excuse I can think of, that or I'm a bit blind

[Lauren 2259]

Well, you're reliant on their goodwill. But they should have details of any blemishes or damage to the car as after all they would have inspected it fully. 

[jevvy 40]

Just now, Lauren said:

Well, you're reliant on their goodwill. But they should have details of any blemishes or damage to the car as after all they would have inspected it fully. 

I cant work out if the damage is extremely minor or quite bad and whether it would be worth rejecting the car if the dealer stonewalls me as it would definitely come under grounds for that if it did come to that the dealer would probably offer a repair instead anyway

[Lauren 2259]

You bought the car sold as seen, so you won't have grounds for rejecting the car, at least that's how I see it. It doensn't look anything more than minor, but take it there explain that you have just noticed this and see what they say. It's all you can do really. And keep cool. 

[jevvy 40]

2 minutes ago, Lauren said:

You bought the car sold as seen, so you won't have grounds for rejecting the car, at least that's how I see it. It doensn't look anything more than minor, but take it there explain that you have just noticed this and see what they say. It's all you can do really. And keep cool. 

That would ofcourse be a last resort! I intend to do everything possible to resolve the situation prior to that fingers crossed I get some answers tomorrow atleast

[Toybaru1 15]

To be fair, if it was a 'new' car you would grounds for complaint. But a 2 year old used vehicle,  it will have wear and tear. 

[jevvy 40]

23 minutes ago, Toybaru1 said:

To be fair, if it was a 'new' car you would grounds for complaint. But a 2 year old used vehicle,  it will have wear and tear. 

If you consider crashing your car into things wear and tear then more power to you my friend, thanks for your constructive input to the questions I posed.

[Toybaru1 15]

11 minutes ago, jevvy said:

If you consider crashing your car into things wear and tear then more power to you my friend, thanks for your constructive input to the questions I posed.

Doesn't mean it's been crashed into something,  could have been car park nudge? 

Took the rear no plate off mine to polish, found it had paintwork,  it was 12 months old,   accepted the fact. Unfortunately salesmen don't point out the negative points when selling. 

Good luck sorting it andApologies for the 'constructive' input.... 🙄

Edited March 21, 2017 by Toybaru1

[Stutopia 158]

Be polite but firm with the dealer, explaining what you expect them to do to put it right. If they don't play ball, reject it under Consumer Rights Act, you've got 30 days. Doesn't matter if it's new or used for CRA. The only spanner is you could be made to prove it was there at delivery, which may be tricky, but not impossible.

If you do go down the second path, make sure you do things in writing and send any correspondence special delivery for the signatures. Then drop the car off with them and get your cash back. You'd be well with your rights.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

 

Good luck, hope you sort it amicably.

[jevvy 40]

42 minutes ago, Stutopia said:

Be polite but firm with the dealer, explaining what you expect them to do to put it right. If they don't play ball, reject it under Consumer Rights Act, you've got 30 days. Doesn't matter if it's new or used for CRA. The only spanner is you could be made to prove it was there at delivery, which may be tricky, but not impossible.

If you do go down the second path, make sure you do things in writing and send any correspondence special delivery for the signatures. Then drop the car off with them and get your cash back. You'd be well with your rights.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

 

Good luck, hope you sort it amicably.

cheers stu! this was basically my plan and I'm glad my understanding was right. The chap I dealt with was ridiculously nice to be fair although I assume most salesman are hehe. But I'm more hopeful than not that I'll get it resolved amicably fingers crossed. I also paid 500£ of the bill on my credit card on the day and the rest by debit card just for the section 75 protection could i potentially get it repaired by my credit card company if the dealer decided not to help I also read online that I can contact my credit card company at the same time as the dealer and should do so to get the ball rolling in any case. You seem pretty knowledgeable so would like to get your take on that! In regards to proving it was done before im sure it could be proved that the overspray on the light was more than a week old somehow and that the bit of corrosion in the corner didnt sprout from the corner of a respray i had done as id only had the car a few days

[Stutopia 158]

The knowledge is all an illusion, I'm not first hand experienced, but I've come across a few people with similar issues and the CRA is black and white on this. They all go the same way - rejection under the CRAwithin 30 days is your nuclear option. But, if your dealer is being genuinely helpful (not stonewalling until your 30 days are over) personally I'd leave the CC company alone for now (great Plan B though) and get it sorted with the dealer, especially if you're planning to use them for ongoing service & maintenace.  What you don't want is to bully them into a cheapo/crap repair (especially if it needs paint blending for the corroded area) that you're then arguing about indefinitely.

As with anything like this though, do what you think is right, not what some random on the internet says  You can always get free, impartial and genuinely knowledge based advice from Citizens Advice too.

[jevvy 40]

1 hour ago, Stutopia said:

The knowledge is all an illusion, I'm not first hand experienced, but I've come across a few people with similar issues and the CRA is black and white on this. They all go the same way - rejection under the CRAwithin 30 days is your nuclear option. But, if your dealer is being genuinely helpful (not stonewalling until your 30 days are over) personally I'd leave the CC company alone for now (great Plan B though) and get it sorted with the dealer, especially if you're planning to use them for ongoing service & maintenace.  What you don't want is to bully them into a cheapo/crap repair (especially if it needs paint blending for the corroded area) that you're then arguing about indefinitely.

As with anything like this though, do what you think is right, not what some random on the internet says  You can always get free, impartial and genuinely knowledge based advice from Citizens Advice too.

What can I do to stop them conducting the same cheap crappy repair as they did the first time around even if they are helpful. Ask them for a full description of the work they intend to carry out and then check it has been done? should i also request a copy of their toyota 2 hundred and whatever point check on the car before it was sold

[Stutopia 158]

Do you know they did the previous repair?

I'd proceed in good faith with them. Remember, you've not got a problem, until you've got a problem.

 

[jevvy 40]

56 minutes ago, Stutopia said:

Do you know they did the previous repair?

I'd proceed in good faith with them. Remember, you've not got a problem, until you've got a problem.

 

I just spoke to the manager on the phone they said they have record of the previous repair from 2015 where the only parts they used were a bracket for 25£ or something and it was probably sprayed then. Which means the paint on the light is 2 years old? He also said They would be happy to have a look at it and fix it but I would have to leave the car with them (9 hour round trip leicester to Torquay) for a few days. He said they wouldn't look to pay for me to have it done locally and asked me to forward him some pictures. I just sent and email with pictures and asking if they would provide me with a car to get me home and back if I came down and if they would consider me getting a quote from my local body shop to refit the bumper so its flush and also  blend the corners where the corrosion is. I also said id have a look at the side light and hopefully its just a clip on the side light that's broken not the bumper that's damaged and i could just have them source me a new side light which I'm sure would be very cheap. I said that might be a lot easier and less costly than 18 hours of me driving +150£ in petrol + me borrowing a car and them having to get it sorted out. 

Do you think I'm underestimating the repairs although I'm sure this would be good enough providing there isn't any further damage and is it reasonable for me to ask to have it done locally and cheaply so i don't have to make the 9 hour round trip twice and leave the car with them for days. Cheers!

Also if they were to deny my request to borrow a car I'm probably looking at £250 in petrol and trains to sort it out which is pretty lame where do i stand in regards to transport costs ect hopefully they will let me get it fixed locally and it wont be too bad or if they do decide i need to go to them they will lend me a car but ive still got 150£ to spend on petrol and 18 hours driving which is less than ideal

[Willtl 54]

If the car is rusting, it needs to be dealt with properly. I think you will have a problem here because really you want this work to be carried out by an authorised Toyota bodyshop because if not, you will need to keep going back to the same place if there are problems. I wouldn't pin your hopes on rejecting the car because I think you may only be able to do so for mechanical issues or something that renders the car not fit for purpose. The dealer can probably fight a rejection claim on the basis that it is a 2nd hand car (and therefore there is no expectation that it will be immaculate) and that they probably aren't obligated to reveal any previous damage.

I think you need to work with the dealer but keep it pleasant - compensation is probably unlikely but they should be able to arrange a loan car whilst they have yours. I've had mixed experience on compensation in the past. The dealer I bought my brand new BRZ from offered me nothing for the inconvenience and cost of going back multiple times to let them fix the parking sensor they installed, but an independent garage who serviced my 156 gave me petrol money the time there was a problem with an oil filter that had to be replaced.

 

Some people understand the value of customer service, others just want your money and are then no longer interested.

[Lauren 2259]

I think it's only fair enough that they do the repair, that's what I would expect. I would expect them to give you a courtesy car whilst your car is with them. They've got a log of what was done previously which sounds pretty minor really. But I wouldn't expect them to pay to get it repaired locally. 

[Stutopia 158]

They should do the repair, as they'd offered, if you accept that. I think you'd struggle to claim the costs of travel (except by their very goodwill) particularly when you chose the dealer knowing how far away it is. A free repair is not being unreasonable.

 

In terms of rejection, you don't even need to accept their repair offer - if you felt sufficiently strongly. The terms are outlined here http://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-resources/legal-updates/consumer-rights-act-2015-and-automotive-sector-10282.aspx but you can also read the act online, particularly this section http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9/enacted about 'freedom from minor defects' and 'appearance and finish'. But I really wouldn't go shouting the odds about this though if they're offering a repair, it's a last resort and if they call your bluff, you may have to go through with it.

[jevvy 40]

11 hours ago, Stutopia said:

They should do the repair, as they'd offered, if you accept that. I think you'd struggle to claim the costs of travel (except by their very goodwill) particularly when you chose the dealer knowing how far away it is. A free repair is not being unreasonable.

 

In terms of rejection, you don't even need to accept their repair offer - if you felt sufficiently strongly. The terms are outlined here http://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-resources/legal-updates/consumer-rights-act-2015-and-automotive-sector-10282.aspx but you can also read the act online, particularly this section http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9/enacted about 'freedom from minor defects' and 'appearance and finish'. But I really wouldn't go shouting the odds about this though if they're offering a repair, it's a last resort and if they call your bluff, you may have to go through with it.

I spoke to the manager today and he basically said that if I took it back they would have chips away fix the damage and replace the side light. He said if the bumper isn't fully flush its not worth the labor to take it off and refit it since its really not that noticeable. Which i do kind of agree but maybe i should take the bumper off and have a look to make sure everything's in order or maybe just taking it off and putting it back on will fix it and make it flush. He also said I can get a quote from chips away myself and take it to my local body shop to get a quote to fix the corrosion and any damage to the paint where its peeling and he could order me a new side light. From the way he was talking he was willing to chuck £150-200 at the cost of repairs. Should I be happy with that standard of repair. He made it sound like if I took it back he would do the repairs as cheaply as possible and was a bit lackadaisical. When I took it to my local bodyshop they reccomended repainting the part of the bumper that was resprayed and he said he couldnt beelive they didnt take out the fog light surround or remove the side light to respay it and that it wasnt a great job but it was sort of on the verge whether it was worth repainting or not. He said the corrosion definitely needs fixing properly along with any peeling paint around that area. Should I be happy with chips away sorting it and not worry about the bumper being a little but out as it isn't really noticeable

[Stutopia 158]

Nice result. Get down to your local body shop for a quote and go from there.

[jevvy 40]

5 minutes ago, Stutopia said:

Nice result. Get down to your local body shop for a quote and go from there.

Im awaiting the quote. The body shop quoted 585 to sort of do the proper job not just fixing the major issues. including a full repray to the wing ect. But that included the cost of sourcing and fitting the new side light which was probably 125£ of that quote. lel. I asked him to give me a quote to just fix the car in the way chips away or the dealer would and said I would get there and take the bumper off my self for them to do the repairs and then refit it myself. Better than 18 hours driving : ) So the chap said he would get back to me tomorrow with a revised quote. Fingers crossed the everryone is in a good mood tomorow.

[Kodename47 446]

If it's of any use, you can get the side markers for cheaper than £125. Especially if you can get 2nd hand. I believe OEM spec ones can be bought in new for ~£70 before import. Surely some solvents would remove the over-spray from them?

[Willtl 54]

7 hours ago, jevvy said:

Im awaiting the quote. The body shop quoted 585 to sort of do the proper job not just fixing the major issues. including a full repray to the wing ect. But that included the cost of sourcing and fitting the new side light which was probably 125£ of that quote. lel. I asked him to give me a quote to just fix the car in the way chips away or the dealer would and said I would get there and take the bumper off my self for them to do the repairs and then refit it myself. Better than 18 hours driving : ) So the chap said he would get back to me tomorrow with a revised quote. Fingers crossed the everryone is in a good mood tomorow.

I have a bit of an issue with rust (probably due to my early car days where my Ford Capri's body was basically rust, fibre glass and filler) and I can't have a car knowing it has rust or worrying that there is a potential rust entry point. For me, taking care of that is more important than ensuring paint work is 100%. I'm a bit concerned that the dealer is trying to take the cheapest option, will Chipsaway be using the correct corrosion protection or just rubbing off the rust they see?

 

I would ask the dealer to put in writing (an e-mail) the maximum they are prepared to pay for the repair (tell them that it is so you can show it to your local body shop so they know what budget they are working to so you don't raise suspicion). I would also ask your body shop to put in writing what they think needs to be done with the cost. This should then be your starting point for discussion - tell the dealer that the body shop has identified what needs to be done and you are happy for the dealer to do the work, but they must put in writing what has been done because if the problem comes back in the future, you need to have a record of what was done.