Turbo / Supercharger / NA

[alucardo 55]

I have been pondering for the past few months of up'ing the power on my 86 and probably more than likely turbo'ing. However having watched lots of track videos and comparative runs against other cars I can help but feel there is not enough gain to truly make it worth my while. All the video footage on track seems to show cars like for example a boxster S simply walking away from a turbo'd 86 (2009 onwards boxster 310bhp). So here in lies my quandary. I'm hoping to do more road trips this year and means me chasing alot of Porsches through the alps and similar roads which I managed to do last year fine in standard form apart from a few sections of road, but was hoping to give them a fright this year but to my eyes modifying car to this extend means a loss of reliability but for not much gain (currently I have TD NA package so the car has more power now and a few suspension mods). So just looking to hear peoples opinions on this topic or if they have chased down a well driven boxster / cayman on track. I am not looking to change my car as the running costs and fun I have with it are not something I wish to loose though admittedly I have been eyeing up Porches....

[Lauren 2259]

Well given there will always be something that is far faster in a straightline, why not concentrate on the handling. I've overtaken far quicker cars on paper on the track and some of those have been well driven too. Not well driven enough though obviously. 

Having more power will make your car quicker in a straight line, but that's all it will do really. I've done the Alps a couple of times now, I've never had problem keeping up with Porsches and the like and well if I happen upon a well driven GT3, then what's the point, let it go. Whatever you do to your GT, you'll never be able to keep up with stuff like that.

So for me, getting my car to handle well and it really does is where it's worth investing I reckon. That and tuition. 

[Church 209]

+1 to enhancing nut behind the wheel, with more seat time & getting HPDE instructions.

& concentrating from upgrades to tires/suspension/brakes.

As result while it still won't accelerate like more powerful cars, you'll be able to outbrake/outturn many of them loosing less speed in corners. And car will still be more reliable and cheaper to run/maintain. Those 4-5K are better spend on wearables and actual tracking/fun of enjoying trackdays, then just adding forced induction for getting faster in straights.

I found satisfaction catching at each turn 3times more powerful porker that could temporarily distance from me only in straights. I guess, i annoyed him, as he left after 6 laps in such fashion. Or due overheated brakes (heavier car/more speed to bleed to take turn).

I'm not sure it's worth comparing track with mountain serpentine roads though. One pushes way less on former and leaves more safety margin there, at least if driving within legal limits. A bit more push then on average public roads, but far from going all out on track, which is controlled environment, where one can learn road specifics better due lapping several times same track & where often mistakes cost less, just sliding a bit if going off track vs falling off the cliff

[alucardo 55]

You have both mirrored my thoughts. Yes the nut behind the wheel does need more work. I have uprated my suspension brakes to follow in the next couple of months. So yes more time on track is where I shall put the money. May have to look into some TSS this year and spend the money there having fun rather than trying to go faster at the moment.

I have caught my fair share of quick stuff on track and I'm not fussed about a turbo for track as I have great fun with it there with out one.

[Varelco 211]

I'm not sure what you a trying to achieve. It sounds like you are trying to prove a point. Who cares what you can and can't keep up with, as long as you are enjoying yourself it doesn't matter. You can modify your car to keep up with a Porsche but why? Just buy one.

 

I've driven the Abbey Harrop supercharged 86 on the road and it added nothing to the enjoyment of the car. I just found myself having to look further ahead and stamp on the brakes earlier. I jumped back in my NA 86 and was more than happy with it.

[S18 RSG 429]

I've owned both a turbo GT86 and a Boxster S, and I can assure you the Porsche would, under no circumstances, "walk away" from a turbo'd 86. A 911 Carrera S couldn't even "walk away" from mine, to the dismay of the friend who owned it. Your issue will be that both cars are very similar dynamically. The Porsches will give you as much trouble in the corners as they will in the straights. As others have said, if you're looking to spend multiple thousands of pounds to keep up with a Porsche, just sell the 86 and buy a Porsche. You can get a 300hp+ Boxster S or Cayman for close to £20k these days, which is probably quite a bit cheaper than an equivalently performing GT86 (after FI, suspension, tyres, brakes etc.).

If you just want a faster GT86, try out turbo'd/supercharged cars for yourself and judge from there. A Youtube video can only tell you so much, but I can tell you from personal experience, 280hp might not sound like much, but it punches well above its weight. Sure, going out and spending your money on tuition/track experience is fine, and should probably be your focus before going to an even faster car, but if you have the finances to turbo/supercharge, why not? 

Like almost any modification(s), you run the risk of reliability issues. In my case, I accelerated well known problems, and experienced quite a few issues quite quickly. I've not doubt they'd have reared their heads had I not turbo'd, just maybe not as quickly. 

I'm on board with the idea of "upgrade the driver before the car" like many others, but I also get that some people just like driving fast cars. Don't let anybody change your mind if you care more about how fast your car is than how fast you are, it's your life

[alucardo 55]

12 hours ago, S18 RSG said:

I've owned both a turbo GT86 and a Boxster S, and I can assure you the Porsche would, under no circumstances, "walk away" from a turbo'd 86. A 911 Carrera S couldn't even "walk away" from mine, to the dismay of the friend who owned it. Your issue will be that both cars are very similar dynamically. The Porsches will give you as much trouble in the corners as they will in the straights. As others have said, if you're looking to spend multiple thousands of pounds to keep up with a Porsche, just sell the 86 and buy a Porsche. You can get a 300hp+ Boxster S or Cayman for close to £20k these days, which is probably quite a bit cheaper than an equivalently performing GT86 (after FI, suspension, tyres, brakes etc.).

If you just want a faster GT86, try out turbo'd/supercharged cars for yourself and judge from there. A Youtube video can only tell you so much, but I can tell you from personal experience, 280hp might not sound like much, but it punches well above its weight. Sure, going out and spending your money on tuition/track experience is fine, and should probably be your focus before going to an even faster car, but if you have the finances to turbo/supercharge, why not? 

Like almost any modification(s), you run the risk of reliability issues. In my case, I accelerated well known problems, and experienced quite a few issues quite quickly. I've not doubt they'd have reared their heads had I not turbo'd, just maybe not as quickly. 

I'm on board with the idea of "upgrade the driver before the car" like many others, but I also get that some people just like driving fast cars. Don't let anybody change your mind if you care more about how fast your car is than how fast you are, it's your life

Interesting. I am not trying to make my car like a Porsche I was more guaging the return on investment on a turbo/supercharger. I agree with most of what everyone has posted here I do occasionally.

Out of interest @S18 RSG what issues have you had if you do not mind me asking?

[alucardo 55]

So I have just returned from doing the nc500 and various roads in Scotland for 5 days. Again I find myself thinking of supercharging / turbo charging the gt86 or going to a boxster /Cayman S.

Has anyone done a European trip of long extended trip with hard driving with a turbo or super charged gt86? Would like to see if the reliability holds up?

Obviously a Cayman boxster comes with great power brakes etc as standard and from my experience they hold up (gen 2) very well.

[Church 209]

Long trips of cruising .. i don't believe for that to put very heavy strain on engine/transmission and thus for such test to be of any value. It's track abuse and how well car stands against it, which imho should be counted.

As for more capable initially car vs modded cheaper one. I'm split on that. One thing if gt86 with modded suspension/brakes/transmission/built engine/added forced induction may cost as much as cayman .. but to me more important would be how expensive upkeep of one vs other car would be. After all, maintaining porsche will have porsche prices to it.

My own choice is to be more modest, i have enough fun on track even with stock NA power. I'd rather pay for even more track days & track wearables/consumables, then mod heck out of car at cost of visiting track several times less (due finite budget). More power will mean also higher wear on many parts of car, thus upping those spendings too. I choose not to. Most cars i meet on track days cost as much as mine or less. Old bmw-s, fiestas, pumas, civics, crx, imprezas, old wrx & sti, old evos, rx-8, golfs, opels & volvos, old audi-s, lada-s. Most expensive are usually race-track prepped from these with ripped interiors/cages/suspension & engine mods. Porsches? Rare guests (remember seeing cayman only once .. hmm, per 25 trackdays i've been to? Same for something like GT-R). I better have car i can afford to trash on track, then one that potentially might be better, but i'd be scared to risk trashing with pushing any more then 7/10.

[alucardo 55]

The running costs of the Cayman and boxster from what I can see are not huge and as the car out of the box does not need changing modification money goes on that rather than changing things.

I do agree on your points as they are the counter arguments I have in my head at the moment.

I'm going to test drive a few boxster and Caymans and see what hat happens. Going to try and tap up a supercharged GT owner aswell for a ride. If I was not doing 2 big trips a year I would keep the gt86 and would not look back.

 

[VAD17 479]

I have test drove both Cayman and 911 before settling on GT86 (911 was not really a serious contender due to price, but why wouldn't you try it out).

Cayman was by far the best in test drive and if you fine with a 2 seater with higher running costs, its a no brainer imo (sorry chaps, just expressing my views). Even current 4 cyl turbo will give you power, handling and sound to keep you happy. And with long range of options you can add them to have out of the box spec to keep it forever.

New one is a different price bracket to GT86, but 2nd hand Cayman can occasionally be had at a very reasonable price (even from Porsche dealership if you tell them what you are after). 2nd hand GTS would be my choice.

If you are after 4 seats (small kids ), and/or want to play with modding your car or want to manage annual "car budget" closer, then there are few contenders to GT86.

I will probably end up spending as much on my GT86 as 2nd hand Cayman by the time I have done all the mods I would like to try, but I will have more fun doing it and few track days in between.

Frankly unless you are on track (and being stuck behind slow Cayman which can speed up on straights and would not let you pass is very annoying), the price difference for me is not worth it (but its more comfortable, no doubt), but if its just you ( or 2 of you) on a few longer trips, I can see the appeal of a Cayman.

On the other hand I have a good friend who bought GT3 and does not drive it much or take it on track because its just so expensive (be has M3 for that, )...

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[Church 209]

Problem with mods in my eyes, that they are worth doing only if one will keep car for long time. There is little chance to recuperate money spent on mods if/when selling car off, or often even harder to sell non-stock car, as most buyers assume that modded cars were abused heavily. Though then again deprecation of upscale expensive cars also is something worth keep in mind for.

No doubt that cayman IS better car. There are many better cars out there then twins. But their cost and cost of keeping them running is so much higher too.

Painful to hear that about GT3. It's a pity for THAT good purpose-built car to never be used as such, but only for showing status :/. M3 also is fun on track, but GT3 .. damn, it might feel cargasmic, when pushed

[MartinT 514]

2 hours ago, Church said:

Problem with mods in my eyes, that they are worth doing only if one will keep car for long time.

The safest assumption with mods is that you will never get your money back.  Both of my previous modded cars sold for book price and no more.

That's fine as I accept it and I mod my car for the enjoyment alone.

[alucardo 55]

Keeping standard parts and putting them back on has always been something I have done. So made some money back.

The problem with modification is the compromise in reliability when you start talking about supercharging etc.

[bassett 48]

Interesting issue I've also considered this early on. Just to check are these pesky Porsches cars of friends you're going on the trip with or just other drivers out on the road? And have you done the road trips since you had the TD package fitted? 

I can imagine going with friends I would want a similar level of power but if not I wouldn't change anything. I can't even remember coming across another driver going for it in an enthusiasts car just slow super car drivers parked on the hair pins, luckily they were going up the stelvio and I was coming down.

For me the 86 with a primary catback and map is sufficient. I haven't done the alps since it was stock but have done a tour of wales and it was enough for me but then altitude isn't as much of a problem. Whilst in wales I didn't have to worry about Porsches instead a clapped out Astra came tearing up behind and I just let him go. No point being taken out or pushing your limits if someone knows the roads better.

 

 

 

[alucardo 55]

Yes recently been to the NC500, have the TD setup. About 19 other cars all Porsches BMW M4's 140's 458 etc etc 
Just have a hankering to try and Porsche out so will test drive. The GT86 is such a fun car and in all honesty was more than a match alot of the time. Lots of compliments came the GT86's way. If I drive the Cayman and Boxster and it does not give me the same feeling as the GT86 I will walk away. 

[MartinT 514]

I would say that the TD NA setup (as I have) is more than adequate to keep up with such cars on alpine roads.  What you might lose in straight line speed you will certainly make up in agility and handling.  I was able to keep up with BMW M cars and Porsches in my supercharged CR-Z and the BRZ is quicker.

[Church 209]

Actually, if one drives within legal limits and without hooning, no mods are needed to follow those porsches on alpine roads. If they regularly go much higher over posted speed limits, constantly do dangerous takeovers, push very fast on dangerous roads even in blind turns .. i'd rethink if it's sensible to drive together with them.