Big brake kit time?

[gavin_t 184]

Currently looking into upgrading the front brake setup on my GT86

Looking to get a bit more consistency on track then the stock callipers offer as braking is one thing I don't have 100% confidence in the cars ability  in when on track.

 

I have tried a few different pad combos now and don't seem to suffer from massive wear or fade but often end up with discoloured discs due the heat build up and then the performance and bite seems to drop off until new pads and discs go on.

 

Was looking at some of the popular K-sport or reyland options that I have seem people using. Or have people got any other suggestions. Cheap hacks like cooling ducts etc make a difference?

Basically weekend road GT86 with about 5 track days a year is my usage, current setup OEM discs and PFC Z pads. Previously been through EBC yellow and Ferodo DS2500.

 

Suggestions welcome

[surrey86 352]

I have the GT3 cooling ducts, didn't seem to make any difference. Removing the dust shields from behind the discs along with them might help though.

[Lucas 244]

If you are thinking of upgrading your brakes, I suggest you don't go the cheap way about it - like getting K Sport and such.

We offer Cosworth big brake kit & AP Racing kits.

https://www.part-box.com/cosworth-big-brake-kit-toyota-gt86-subaru-brz-for-18-inch-wheels-20045208?search=GT86 big brake&description=true

Cossie is the cheapest option. @HariboPenguin was running the kit before he sold his car.

[gavin_t 184]

See my original feeling on K sport echoed this but from doing some actual research on the matter the recent kits seem to have many a happy customer with many tuning companies recommending them.

 

Those cosworth brakes are a little big for me, ideally want to keep to 330mm to give me the option of running 17" wheels also.

[Mike 458]

I plan on getting the reyland kit at some point, seems fine.

[VAD17 479]

See my original feeling on K sport echoed this but from doing some actual research on the matter the recent kits seem to have many a happy customer with many tuning companies recommending them.
 
Those cosworth brakes are a little big for me, ideally want to keep to 330mm to give me the option of running 17" wheels also.

I have Ksports, seem pretty good, certainly much better than stock (you have seen them at Bedford ). Reyland Motorsport would be another option to consider in roughly same price range (more expensive due to AP calipers cost).

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[Lauren 2259]

Get the Reyland Kit with AP 4 pots. For £1500 it's an absolute bargain. I've had mine on for over a year now and 20K miles it's epic. No issues and endless consistent brakes on track. Feels like the front pads will last forever too.

[mick200 2]

What about this kit https://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/big-brake-kits-/332-subaru-brz-front-brembo-330mm-4-pot-kit-.html

[gavin_t 184]

5 hours ago, Lauren said:

Get the Reyland Kit with AP 4 pots. For £1500 it's an absolute bargain. I've had mine on for over a year now and 20K miles it's epic. No issues and endless consistent brakes on track. Feels like the front pads will last forever too.

@Lauren as someone that did alot of driving and track work before going for bigger brakes do you think it was worth while and has made a good difference? 

Wondering if to give one more combo of pads and discs a go with some extra cooling or just jump straight in with a fresh setup. 

It's mainly the feel that I am not keen on for track use. Kind of feels like it won't give the same stopping power every time. Therefore not giving me confidence to be a late on committed on the brakes as I could be.

[gavin_t 184]

32 minutes ago, mick200 said:

What about this kit https://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/big-brake-kits-/332-subaru-brz-front-brembo-330mm-4-pot-kit-.html

Could be an option, although if going for that setup I would have thought finding a set of brembos from an impreza would give the same preformance and maybe cost less?

[Lauren 2259]

21 minutes ago, gavin_t said:

@Lauren as someone that did alot of driving and track work before going for bigger brakes do you think it was worth while and has made a good difference? 

Wondering if to give one more combo of pads and discs a go with some extra cooling or just jump straight in with a fresh setup. 

It's mainly the feel that I am not keen on for track use. Kind of feels like it won't give the same stopping power every time. Therefore not giving me confidence to be a late on committed on the brakes as I could be.

It was hugely worthwhile to have consistent brakes that never fade on track or when I'm sprinting. The consistency is the key here it makes them hugely confidence inspiring which is important when you're on it lap after lap. I find now that my brakes are just sorted and I never have that fear of the brakes fading which is worth the cost alone. 

Whatever you do to the stock brakes you will still have the same problem. I know I tried for nigh on five years trying different pads, but the conclusion I came to was that while I could find a slight improvement the problem remained. 

[Adi 40]

I agree with what others said. Don't get cheapo BBK. Even expensive ones are not guaranteed to be flawless.

I have and I am very happy with these (Stoptech BBK):

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/stoptech-328x28-big-brake-kit-f.html

get extra 3% discount using code: ft86club

Pads and ss lines are included, so you end up about the same price as Reyland for just the calipers and disks.

Super silent, like stock on the road, though you need to be careful when you brake in the beginning so you don't go through the windshield. Very good and consistent on track. Had to half my braking distance compared to stock. I know, pretty ridiculous, it took me a few laps braking later and later, to believe what was going on and to trust it.

I also got a Master Cylinder Stopper that seems to make a huge difference for me. The firewall was flexing a lot. Now it feels solid, I can modulate the brakes much better, but the biggest difference was in how much easier the heel-and-toe felt after installing the stopper. Highly recommended for any kind of brakes: https://www.fensport.co.uk/parts/subaru/brz/zc6/braking/gt86-beatrush-brake-master-cylinder-brace/

Never tried the Reyland kit but had issues with the AP Essex Kit in my previous gt86 - overheating and warping which is unusual for AP, and all pad brands were squealing like hell on the road.

There is also  the Verus/Velox  brake duct kit. http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/velox-performance-brake-cooling-kit-ducts-2013-ft86.html. Takes a long time to install (5-6 hours labor), you need to remove or replace your washer fluid bottle with a smaller one (like in the turbo kits), and  the tyres will rub on the ducts unless you install wheel spacers or steering rack limiters. You also loose your fog lights.

Had no issues after a good day at Donington in December, in the dry and 14'C weather. I was more worried about engine temperatures. The brakes seem they could take much more than the 25-30 min sessions I was doing.

 

[Adi 40]

1 hour ago, gavin_t said:

Wondering if to give one more combo of pads and discs a go with some extra cooling or just jump straight in with a fresh setup. 

It's mainly the feel that I am not keen on for track use. Kind of feels like it won't give the same stopping power every time. Therefore not giving me confidence to be a late on committed on the brakes as I could be.

Before BBK I did a lot of track days on Stoptech OEM repacement disks https://www.tarmacsportz.co.uk/brakes/brake-discs/stoptech-toyota-gt86-subaru-brz-13-14-front-and-rear-slotted-street-kit.html

With a good pad they felt almost as good as my BBK. Same stopping power, a bit less modulation. But much cheaper. Disks lasted me about 20 track days. They do heat up, and I had to change pads every 3-4 track days, but it was serious abuse. If you keep it keep it to 15-20 min sessions they will last quite a bit longer.

Still get the MC brake stopper, it will change the feel a lot, even on OEM.

[HariboPenguin 116]

10 hours ago, Lucas@PartBox said:

If you are thinking of upgrading your brakes, I suggest you don't go the cheap way about it - like getting K Sport and such.

We offer Cosworth big brake kit & AP Racing kits.

https://www.part-box.com/cosworth-big-brake-kit-toyota-gt86-subaru-brz-for-18-inch-wheels-20045208?search=GT86 big brake&description=true

Cossie is the cheapest option. @HariboPenguin was running the kit before he sold his car.

Yeah I can highly recommend the Cossie / AP kit. One of the best mods that I did to my car. They give so much more confidence on track and will take whatever you throw at them in their stride whilst staying consistent throughout.

If you don't want 18's though I'd recommend the standard AP kits or one of the Reyland kits that are AP but with their own mounting hardware or disc options that can reduce the cost. There are also other kits out there that are just as good but I'd stick to the proven brands such as AP, Stoptech, Brembo and Alcon (Megabucks, but pretty much cream of the crop in terms of brakes)

It's really not worth going for the cheaper kits like K-Sport if you're serious about tracking. Proper kits are built to handle much more stress and are also lighter and give better feel which is important when you are braking as late as possible on track, you need that confidence that every time you hit that pedal you are going to get the braking performance and feedback you expect and that they will never let you down.

Also don't get caught up in the "more pistons, means it's better" BS, this isn't true at all and is normally how most of the cheaper kits try and blag that they are better. A well designed caliper with fewer pistons can easily outperform a badly designed one which just has as many pistons as they could cram in there cause bigger numbers look better. I've toured Alcon's factory and the amount of engineering, R&D and product testing that goes in to making these kits is insane, you won't get anywhere near that with cheap brands like K-Sport.

Definitely get a master cylinder brace too as others have suggested, improves the pedal feel quite a bit, especially under heavy braking.

[Church 209]

Weird, i hadn't felt that big of a difference from brace .. though i don't have braided brake lines, still stock ones.

BTW, among features from BBKs worth looking for is also how common pad shape is used on particular one. That may make wearables cheaper and also make available pad selection/choice way wider, fitting everybody's own preferences and usage patterns.

[Lauren 2259]

10 hours ago, Adi said:

I have and I am very happy with these (Stoptech BBK):

Pads and ss lines are included, so you end up about the same price as Reyland for just the calipers and disks.

 

 

The £1500 for the AP 4 pots and Reyland discs includes the braided lines and pads and everything you need to fit and go. 

[gavin_t 184]

14 hours ago, HariboPenguin said:

Yeah I can highly recommend the Cossie / AP kit. One of the best mods that I did to my car. They give so much more confidence on track and will take whatever you throw at them in their stride whilst staying consistent throughout.

If you don't want 18's though I'd recommend the standard AP kits or one of the Reyland kits that are AP but with their own mounting hardware or disc options that can reduce the cost. There are also other kits out there that are just as good but I'd stick to the proven brands such as AP, Stoptech, Brembo and Alcon (Megabucks, but pretty much cream of the crop in terms of brakes)

It's really not worth going for the cheaper kits like K-Sport if you're serious about tracking. Proper kits are built to handle much more stress and are also lighter and give better feel which is important when you are braking as late as possible on track, you need that confidence that every time you hit that pedal you are going to get the braking performance and feedback you expect and that they will never let you down.

Also don't get caught up in the "more pistons, means it's better" BS, this isn't true at all and is normally how most of the cheaper kits try and blag that they are better. A well designed caliper with fewer pistons can easily outperform a badly designed one which just has as many pistons as they could cram in there cause bigger numbers look better. I've toured Alcon's factory and the amount of engineering, R&D and product testing that goes in to making these kits is insane, you won't get anywhere near that with cheap brands like K-Sport.

Definitely get a master cylinder brace too as others have suggested, improves the pedal feel quite a bit, especially under heavy braking.

Yer I am definatly on the same wave as less pots are better. I know from my bike racing days alot of the bigger number of pot calipers began to loose feel as you are introducing more and more movable parts.

K sport were getting a good word from TD and some other trusted sources but as the Reyland Kit is so close in price that may be the way to go. 

I might bash on one more set of disks and pads while I mull over this information. May also give something nice the opertunity to come up for sale on here as well in the mean time 

 

What brake stopper/brace are people using? Might be worth a punt if cheap and easy to fit.

[Lauren 2259]

You should look at the price of replacement pads comparing the AP to K-Sport. IIRC the replacement pads for the K-Sport calipers were a fair bit more, so I heard anyway. I honestly wouldn't touch K-Sport over a reputable brand like AP. It's not because I've heard anything bad about K-Sport, but AP is used by manufacturers as OEM and a number of manufacturers for their race cars. I don't think K-Sport have anywhere near the same reputation. 

[Badger 63]

You should look at the price of replacement pads comparing the AP to K-Sport. IIRC the replacement pads for the K-Sport calipers were a fair bit more, so I heard anyway. I honestly wouldn't touch K-Sport over a reputable brand like AP. It's not because I've heard anything bad about K-Sport, but AP is used by manufacturers as OEM and a number of manufacturers for their race cars. I don't think K-Sport have anywhere near the same reputation. 

Had ap 6 pots on my old focus st225 and they were great. Had been on the car for about 6 years

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[Luke 193]

Sorry to revive another thread about brakes and track days. I feel exactly the same way @gavin_t. Just wondering what you decided and if you've had a chance to get on track with them yet? I mocked up my own master cylinder brace and can agree there is an improvement but only when you Bury the pedal. That's only road testing not track so I'm sure it will be far better on track. Easy to fit as well because you just need a wobbly extension to tighten the bolts up with the car on full lock. 

[Luke 193]

13 hours ago, Tubbytommy said:

I've gone full on now.

Just got these back from being refurbed

Rear 2 pots from a hatch Impreza sti.

Also have j hook discs,braided lines and ferrodo pads 

Do you have to swap to legacy discs? Will the caliper bolt straight on? Do you have to swap the bleeder over on the rear? 

[gavin_t 184]

@Luke I ended up been more or less sure I was going to get some K-sports.

Got as far as attempting to book in to get them ordered and fitted but none of the uk suppliers had any UK stock at the time. I had an upcoming trackday and needed new disks and pads. Therefore I am going to use these up first before I get back to ordering a BBK.

[Luke 193]

That's a shame about k-sport not being in stock. Did they have a lead time for UK stock? 

[Luke 193]

1 hour ago, Tubbytommy said:

Not legacy discs it requires hatch sti discs redrilled to 100 pcd.

No swapping of bleeder this is only required on fronts.

This conversion is just bolt on.

Will300 has done it to his brz who kindly helped with some info

 

Was this for aesthetics or to balance out brake bias? 

[Luke 193]

Probably most worthwhile doing when you need new rear discs and pads anyway.