S18 RSG

Welcome Andrew. I actually went down the complete opposite path to you. I was at cars upwards of 350bhp with V8s, meaning I looked at a BMW M3, C63 AMG, Lexus ISF, Maserati Gransport and a load of others. The end result was the same though. Curiosity meant I took a test drive in the GT86 and it made everything else I test drove feel like a massive, heavy rep mobile, in comparison to this light, agile sports car, and I had to buy it.

As do the coilovers.

This was never really the debate. The debate was whether spending £500 on shocks alone would give more or less benefit than spending £500 on coilovers. I agree, with no further information you could make the argument about "cheap coilovers not being worth the money", but we're talking about Tein coilovers, a brand which is used by a huge percentage of owners on this site, and is proven to be great value for money, not some £200 set of Chinese made eBay coilovers. I have no doubt that Bilstein make great products, and also have no doubt that a Bilstein shock absorber is "better quality" than the Tein shock absorber used in their coilover applications. However, in this scenario (Bilstein B8 vs Tein Coilovers) the Teins have adjustable damping, adjustable ride height and stiffer (although still very compliant) springs. As a package, they offer greater adjustability and greater handling performance. The trade off is better "quality" damping performance for the Bilsteins, which is absolutely fine if the damping profile suits your needs and your driving style, but of course, if not, you have no adjustment, so you're stuck with them how they are. As I've said, I don't think anyone can say for sure whether one is better than the other, as nobody here seems to have experience of both, and therefore all our opinions here are based on just that, our opinions. My opinion is simply that, as a package, Tein coilovers offer more than fixed height and fixed rate dampers at the same price point. Everybody seems to be willing to make assumptions that the Bilstein option will be better, but nobody has any reason to make that assumption other than believing that because they cost more money, they must be better.

Yeah, of course, that's what I was getting at with my last reply (pros and cons). An uprated damper on a stock spring will improve ride, no doubt about it, but won't necessarily give such noticeable improvements in cornering. At the end of the day, a stock spring maintains it's spring rate no matter what damper it's attached to, so under load it will still compress the same amount, resulting in body roll, and therefore less precise cornering. An uprated spring will help maintain a more flat body under load, but mated on a stock damper will be more "crashy". I think we're all in agreement that an uprated damper/spring combo is the way to go for handling, as you get the advantages of both, and that can be achieved with coilovers or separate damper/spring units. If all you care about is comfort, then you probably bought the wrong car when you drove out in a GT86 but on a serious note, damping is the most important upgrade in that case.

You realise that springs have different "spring rates" right? That is, a stiffer spring requires more weight (or load) before it will be compressed a certain amount. Thinking about this logically, a stiffer spring helps "support" that load, and keep the car flat and level through a corner, meaning more even distribution of load between left and right wheels, and therefore more grip overall. The stock springs that come on this car are 3kg/mm (I believe), whereas a stiffer spring could be something like 6kg/mm, meaning that twice the load is required to compress the spring the same amount, resulting in flatter cornering. I think it's up for debate whether a fixed damper/spring combination is better value than a similarly priced set of coilovers, as we really don't have enough evidence to support either opinion, but we can at least agree on the facts here.

Oh absolutely, cheap coilovers are best avoided, but I wouldn't class Tein products as "cheap". I certainly wouldn't put £200 eBay coilovers on the car, which was commonplace in the VAG scene. It's all a matter of pros and cons. On the one hand, you get dampers which will do their job better than the coilovers, whereas coilovers give you more adjustability and upgraded springs which may be a better all round package. Given that suspension quality is determined by both the spring and the damper (and obviously countless other things) you may find that the better dampers are balanced out by worse springs. I don't know, just spitballing really.

A decent set of shock absorbers (like the Bilstein's) are gonna set you back close to £500. For that price you could buy the basic Tein coilovers, which I have tried, and are a noticeable upgrade in handling while maintaining, or even improving the standard ride. You don't need to lower the car to crazy lengths either. I'm fairly sure you can lower by as little as 10mm from stock on most coilovers, some possibly even offer stock ride height. There are a few guys on the US forum running upgraded dampers, but most also do the springs at the same time, so you may struggle to find too many people with that setup.

I also stuck with 6/6 on my Teins. I find there is enough adjustability in the damping to tune the car more towards under/over steer depending on your preference, so stock spring rates work fine for me.

Here are mine. 3SDM 0.01. 18x8.5 et35 (et30 on the rear thanks to spacers). Unlike above, they're NOT lightweight, in fact I believe they weigh slightly more than standard at nearly 10kg each, but for the 99% of time when the car is either parked up, driving slowly through town or driving on the motorway, that's basically irrelevant. Then when I reach my destination I get to look at them, which is where they come into their own. And a pic on the car: Car is lowered around 25-30mm on Tein coilovers.

Well I was kinda hoping you'd take me out for a quick spin anyway, to compare FI with stock, but if you have it changed by then, even better. Probability is I'll change mine before going FI though.

Also more than happy to share a room with someone. Slightly off topic, but following from what Mike brought up, is there anyone who's heading to this event who's changed the final drive on a manual? Be really interested to go out in one.

Hi all. I'm booked in with @Mark@Abbey M/S on Saturday 27th of Feb for a remap. Will be aiming to get there mid morning (10am ish) and I have no further plans for the rest of the day. I don't know the area, but I know a few of you guys are from around there, so if any of you are free and fancy meeting up for a drive or a bite to eat or whatever, let me know and perhaps you can all meet me at Abbey (providing it's ok with Mark of course). Ross

Obviously...

Can't imagine there'll be many places cheaper than that. See what everyone else says, but even if nobody else wants to go through with that, I'll probably stay there (less distance for me to drive after 10 hours of meetings on Saturday).

Sure, wouldn't hurt to find out at very least. Only a quick 30 mile blast up the M6. Cheers Mark.

I guess I could just drive up to Cheshire from Birmingham and get a hotel there, rather than staying in Birmingham. Whoever books the hotel first, let me know also, I'll grab a room there.

I've seen a load of information scattered around the web of people using Impreza brakes and anti-roll bars, Legacy oil coolers and various other Toyota/Subaru branded parts, as upgrades for the GT86. I've recently learned of a breaker near me which specialises in breaking Jap cars, so wondered if I could compile a list (with the help of you guys) of parts to have them keep a look out for, which could be used for upgrades on the 86. Obviously, if anyone else is on the lookout for similar parts, I can ask them to contact me on your behalf also. So, if you know of any parts which are known upgrades from other Subaru/Toyota models, please let me know

I'm not sure to be honest, if doors open early morning, I assume it would be early, but we can discuss that closer to the time. I'm up in Birmingham on the Saturday too, so I'm not even sure whether I'll be staying at a hotel there, or heading back Saturday night ready for this on Sunday. Will have to have a think.

Really? That is interesting. Not sure I would personally choose a second hand part for the gearbox, especially given that it's a hell of a job changing one out, but still interesting nonetheless.

I would guess that we may head up the M50 through Ross on Wye, so we wouldn't get on the M5 until Strensham services, but more than happy to meet there if you would be good with that?

I'll go home and have a think on it tonight mate, if I can find a way, I will have it off you, no doubt, but please don't rely on it

I'm sure someone will snatch this up too, can't deny it's a great price. As I said in my other reply, likelihood for me is closer to the middle of the year, or perhaps a little later. If your plans end up lining up with mine, we can perhaps get a conversation started.

I've never been one for financing or loaning money, I hate the idea of being indebted lol. Realistically, I wasn't thinking about forced induction until May/June, main reason for which is because I would want to have brakes upgraded, new tyres etc. first, so it's not so much being able to afford the price for this kit, but everything that goes along with it (not to mention fitting/mapping). All in, even at this price, I'd still probably be looking at closer to £3.5-4k to get this installed, running and driving as I'd want.

If I had a way of getting the money Smudge, I'd have it off you tomorrow. Nobody will be selling anything I want when I have money, I guarantee it.

If you decide against heading up the night before, let me know and we can head up together if you like. I assume you'll be heading down the M4 past me anyway, so could meet up at Magor services or something.