Adi

Was wondering if anyone experienced this. Mostly happens on track, I brake hard at the end of a straight before a hairpin (think hairpin at bedford at the end of the second straight, after the 1km straight - which is a very hard braking zone, from 100+mph to 35-ish, ), The brake pedal is quite firm for the first 1-2 seconds, but then the pedal goes down slowly, almost like the brakepads became wooly and compressed 50% or something loosing pressure somewhere. It does not go all the way to the floor, but significant enough to feel it softening. It does not seem to affect the braking itself, can still control the slow down, and then trail brake, and it is fine for the next corner. I also never felt unsafe, since the actual braking was not affected, but weird feeling to have the pedal go soft in the middle like that when held under pressure for a bit longer. Again this only happens when I'm really standing on the brakes, 100% pressure, after at least 1 or 2 seconds, not right away. I've got BBK in fornt (Stoptech) and stock calipers in the rear. Stainles lines in front. rubber ones in the rear. I had the pads changed not too long ago and brakes bled. Brake fluid is Millers racing fluid dot 4. Had this happen both with EBC Yellows and Stoptech Sport pads Any ideas ?

Been doing it for 2 years now, in conjunction with about 10 Car Limits handling days per year. I wish it was all fun, but buying new tyres (PS4) every 4 month, having full service (engine, tranny, diff, brake flush) and new front pads every 2-3 month, gets a little tiring sometimes. Not counting the cost of track days and full day instruction (which is worth every penny imho). And the more you learn, the more you realize how much more there is to learn (and how much you forgotten since the last session). Can be a bit discouraging sometimes. But the highs are pretty high too when things come out right.

I don't think ABS was engaging, not in the usual way at least., the pedal just sags for half an inch but pressure is still controllable, I don't feel loss of braking power. Everything feels normal except for the bit of sagging in the middle. Again this is when I'm standing on the pedal, braking late and hard after a long straight, and I am still going in a straight line, slowing down from 100+ to 35. It feels like some pressure is released somewhere (feeling is hydraulic/progressive, not abrupt), but no vibration or rock-hard pedal. While my ABS was still ON, I was in Pedal Dance mode otherwise.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I'll look into some Ti shims and better quality pads (Pagid RS29 )and see what happens. @Sentinal187 I will try refreshing the fluid by bleeding it and rear braided lines. Cheers!

Around 20 track days per year (2/month). Yes, Millers dot 4 300 I have been told to brake later and harder, and I do tend to stay on the brakes a bit longer than my instructor likes it, so I see your point. Still, it feels like my brake pedal has 2 modes of operation. 1) If I am light on them they don't fade. Ever. 2) If I am hard on them, like when I do brake later and harder, there is the initial application (I can even stomp on them, they will be firm), and then they compress. I don't experience any 'fade' per se in braking power. It's just the pedal "compresses" - soft hydraulic feeling of lowering for about half an inch - after one or 2 seconds if I stand on it. Braking power still there.

I don't feel a drop in braking power but rather a softening of the pedal, that feels almost hydraulic (like when you release the valve of a hydraulic jack stand). I might have fluid fade rather than pad fade.

Car is daily driver, no issues on road. 20min sessions on track.

So I take it you guys think it is most likely brake fade from pads overheating, rather than a bad MC or anything else ? Would the pedal go down if the brake pad was overheating?

Stopetch sport pads in the rear, with stock caliper, OEM rubber lines, and Stoptech uprated disks. BBK installed and liquid flush in December with Stoptechs. Had a flush and EBC yellow pads installed in April. Had pads changed again to new Stoptechs in June, nu flush, still doing it. I've got a Master Cylinder brace also, and brake ducts.

@VAD17 Not just with FI, but even on NA, once your driving improves same will happen. Once I started instruction, I went through pads much faster. 3-4 track days on DS2500, EBC Yellows, Stoptech Sports. (I've got the Stoptech BBK and Velox brake ducts but otherwise completely stock power). I will try Pagid RS29 next. They are supposed to last longer and still be very good. Or just drive slow : P .

What tune did you use for this?

You don't need rear BBK. Been doing 20 track days and about 15 Car Limits days last year, and the rears still had about 1/3 left. I did get the StopTech uprated OEM disk replacements and their Sport pads, but still much cheaper than BBK. Fensport race car (a real monster) has the same configuration for the rears. If they didn't bother with BBK in the back at 400+ hp, , 19" wheels, and big semi-slicks ... I have a hard time finding a good reason to do it.

I replaced the diff bushes with the Superpro Poly ones (not the inserts but full replacement). I also have the subframe inserts. Handling and shifting are better but the increase in the NVH is there and over time it just got louder and louder. I don't it recommended for a road car.

I've got an OEM set with locking nuts and key also from my original wheels. £15

I've got a black OEM steering wheel if you still need.

I'm coming up on my 20th day at CarLimits. It is brilliant, you will feel the limits and realize how little you know about driving :), but also have a blast, especially in an 86/BRZ. In a 4 people day, you get a lot of driving time and will be knackered by the end of the day. The hardest part is after the day is over and you go home and feel like everyone drives ridiculously slow. As Vad said, It is hard on the tyres, the surface is very abrasive, but you can manage. My last set of PS4s lasted 6 track days and 3 car limits days, and I did not go easy on them - to say the least. My Primacies did not do anywhere near as well. If you are lucky and get a wet day it is the best training ever for wet surfaces, plus you will be sidways a lot :). But don't worry you will be sideways on a normal day too. And backwards, and all possible angles.

For sale. Lighter items can ship (s+h not included in price). Heavy items collection only, Barnet, Hertfrodshire. All in good condition. OEM fog lights (L+R) - £80 OEM steering wheel (2012-2016) - £80 OEM side mirror glass (no external casing) L and R, heated, £20 each, £35 for both. OEM, 30k miles - Suspension: shocks & springs, front and rear: £80 OEM, 30k miles - Front top mounts L+R : £20 OEM, 30k miles - Rear anti-roll bar: £35 and Drop Links (£15) OEM, 30k miles - Rear LCA (lower control arms) : £20 OEM, 30k miles - Front brake calipers L+R: £65 BBK brake pads: this spec: https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/brake-pads-to-suit-ap-racing-cp8350-4-piston-caliper-wilwood-superlite-440668/ - New: Ferodo DS 3000 (FRP501R) for AP Essex Sprint Kit or Wilwood Superlite: £90 - New: EBC Yellowstuff (EBCDP4037/2R) for AP Essex Sprint Kit or Wilwood Superlite: £60

bump

Added steering wheel and fog lights

My first 86 was a 2014. Current one is a 2016 which I got for 15000, with 30k miles on board. I can tell there is a significant difference in handling. The car is more planted, steering is more precise. Much better with stock suspensions than the the previous one. Here is an article that I totally agree with in my recent experience: https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/2015-toyota-86-sharper-stiffer-43065/ And the relevant text: The Toyota 86’s chief engineer explained the changes to the car’s damping rates and rear suspension change the way the car interacts with the road, resulting in “even better steering stability and a more communicative handling. “We decided to change the way how suspension parts - including the rear shock absorbers - are attached to the chassis. This increases body rigidity, hence adds to better handling stability and response,” said Tada. “Shock absorbers were also retuned. We used a new technology for stabilising damping force, and we improved friction control and responsiveness,” he added. The car now gives the driver “that extra bit of control, especially when the car is driven on the limit,” said Tada, who also confirmed a handful of “subtle” cosmetic changes will distinguish the 2015 models from their progenitors.

They are the Sport Pads

Added side mirrors (glass and snap-on bracket)

Before BBK I did a lot of track days on Stoptech OEM repacement disks https://www.tarmacsportz.co.uk/brakes/brake-discs/stoptech-toyota-gt86-subaru-brz-13-14-front-and-rear-slotted-street-kit.html With a good pad they felt almost as good as my BBK. Same stopping power, a bit less modulation. But much cheaper. Disks lasted me about 20 track days. They do heat up, and I had to change pads every 3-4 track days, but it was serious abuse. If you keep it keep it to 15-20 min sessions they will last quite a bit longer. Still get the MC brake stopper, it will change the feel a lot, even on OEM.

I agree with what others said. Don't get cheapo BBK. Even expensive ones are not guaranteed to be flawless. I have and I am very happy with these (Stoptech BBK): http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/stoptech-328x28-big-brake-kit-f.html get extra 3% discount using code: ft86club Pads and ss lines are included, so you end up about the same price as Reyland for just the calipers and disks. Super silent, like stock on the road, though you need to be careful when you brake in the beginning so you don't go through the windshield. Very good and consistent on track. Had to half my braking distance compared to stock. I know, pretty ridiculous, it took me a few laps braking later and later, to believe what was going on and to trust it. I also got a Master Cylinder Stopper that seems to make a huge difference for me. The firewall was flexing a lot. Now it feels solid, I can modulate the brakes much better, but the biggest difference was in how much easier the heel-and-toe felt after installing the stopper. Highly recommended for any kind of brakes: https://www.fensport.co.uk/parts/subaru/brz/zc6/braking/gt86-beatrush-brake-master-cylinder-brace/ Never tried the Reyland kit but had issues with the AP Essex Kit in my previous gt86 - overheating and warping which is unusual for AP, and all pad brands were squealing like hell on the road. There is also the Verus/Velox brake duct kit. http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/velox-performance-brake-cooling-kit-ducts-2013-ft86.html. Takes a long time to install (5-6 hours labor), you need to remove or replace your washer fluid bottle with a smaller one (like in the turbo kits), and the tyres will rub on the ducts unless you install wheel spacers or steering rack limiters. You also loose your fog lights. Had no issues after a good day at Donington in December, in the dry and 14'C weather. I was more worried about engine temperatures. The brakes seem they could take much more than the 25-30 min sessions I was doing.

bump - all still available.