Burn! Motorsport

The answer to this is in my earlier post. Balance the upgrades you carry out on the front and rear. I.e use the same compound of pads and match the rotors. It doesn't sound particularly like you are exceeding the performance of the standard brakes so simply use better brake fluid, brake lines and pads.

I think Lauren is trying to say for many people they will be fine. Which is true. Not that they can't be improved on. For me they would probably be okay on the road. But on the track they would not. I have faded the standard brakes on many higher performance cars within shorter time frames on the circuit. I don't want to pit for a cool down every ten minutes as I generally drive track sessions of about 30 minutes. Sessions of over 20 minutes will be very hard on a car. And ware rates on everything will be dramatically accelerated - brakes, oil, tyres etc. For what can be spent on the classic BBK you can afford the set of better tyres and that extra oil change. Then get better value from your track time. Which is ultimately what I am looking for.

The ES would outlast the OEM. The Z's probably wouldn't but there would be no need to pull off the track every ten minutes.

I miss read your post. I thought you said "cheap option will do for short sessions" implying that the set up I suggested wouldn't be suitable for more than ten minutes. Sorry my bad. :bangheadonwall

Good stuff :-) will be great for some feedback.

I disagree. An upgrade to some proper pads will be more than sufficient for most here. Just checked the standard disc sizes out as I thought they might be useful for this thread. Front 294 x 24 vented Rear 290 x 18 solid IMO they are pretty decent sizes. If you are looking to do longer track sessions then a simple upgrade to the pads and discs will be more then capable. At that point if you are cooking discs then upgrade the discs to a higher carbon heat treated discs. A bigger disc is not always better. It may manage more heat but it will inevitably weight more, cost more and be more likely the cause for a wheel upgrade. If money is no object then high end BBK's will obviously be the choice. However I have many times seen cars with poorly balanced brakes being outperformed by well balanced standard set ups with well chosen pads.

Just a quick note to say we can supply braided hoses and brake fluid too!

I would say if your discs are still good then just go with upgraded pads, hoses and fluid. To retain the balance of the brakes you MUST match front and rear at the same time. You do this relatively cheaply. Decent 5.1 fluid £12, Brake lines £70 and then Pads... well you could spend £300 up but its probably not necessary yet. Avoid pads that are labeled as "race" they will not perform when cold and greatly increase wear rates on the road. Posting commercially I would recommend looking at DIXCEL ES or Z type pads, check out this thread http://www.gt86.org.uk/forums/topic/2139-introducing-dixcel-brake-pads/

As in the post above. We are offering one front and rear set for testing. Here are the installation instructions. They have been loosely translated to english!!!

Hello, no on has taken us up yet. Partly my fault. We have all the kits here now so shout if your interested. Thanks for that.

Okay, unfortunately SkallyB cannot take us up on the offer due to work commitments. GT86Jay was interested so we will give him first refusal.

These are a total bargain at that price. GLWTS

Duty and vat will be about 24% in total. If it comes via a courier there will be a clearance charge of usually about £30 or 4% of the total bill. If it's by ems I think the charges are slightly lower. From our experience marking down invoices to keep customs charges low can be bad news as it also means that the insurance value is reduced. So if it arrives damaged you can't claim for the full cost. Hope this helps.

We have the 1.3 multijet sport. Was a brilliant little car. It was a shame it had such a lack of sound deadening.

I want to like you post but I have reached my quota for the day I believe in the gear I sell. After fitting to a number of my own cars I can say I truly do believe in them. I installed them to my wifes Fiat 500 and it transformed it. NVH levels dropped significantly, enough for my wife to keep the car for a further two years before trading it in for a larger more motorway suitable car. Some cars the effects are less noticeable. I'm not a gambling man but I will put my money where my mouth is.

Car look great in that first pic. Great to have another trackday freak onboard

Good point. I made the assumption that the GEO would already be at the owners prefered spec's so adjustment wouldn't be required.

Look like we have a volunteer! Where are you located? Do you have a garage in mind for installation, or would you be confident installing yourself? Can you carry out the works and complete a write up within 2 weeks? I would suggest a process of: 1. GEO check - Adjustment shouldn't be necessary if correctly aligned already, just a print out to show current set up. 2. Vehicle test drive 3. Install Collars 4. GEO check and print out after collar installation. Then adjust to manufacturer specification or as per initial inspection and print out. 5. Vehicle test drive Obviously the whole installation would need to be documented with images. I am looking for a good honest report from someone that appreciates refined handling.

Here is DIXCEL's Race Car - they have just informed me that they have developed a new race only compounds so if any of you are racers let me know

Hi, thanks for all the comments. It's interesting seeing the reactions on these types of modifications on different forums. Introduce it to a forum where the members are already aware of issues with subframe movement and they are well received, introduce them where the cars are relatively new and benefits have not been explored then the reaction is always different. I was also a skeptic when the product came on to our radar. However the product proved itself and I am no more. Regarding the "secret space metal" comments, it's a joke... It is obvious to anyone with a engineering background that the material is an aluminium alloy. However we do not know which one as quite rightly so, it is patent protected like the concept of the product itself. I am not hugely familiar with the GT86 yet as it is new to me so I am not going to argue the credentials without proof. However what I am willing to do is offer a set for the purpose of write up. The car would be better with un-modified chassis and suspension. i.e. no updated bushing or aftermarket suspension. However if its lightly modified then it's not the end of the world. A road test will be required before and after the installation, along the same roads and driven in the same manner. The car will require a GEO with print out before and after the installation - some adjustment may be necessary. This will need to be done pre road test. The installation will need to be documented and photographed for write up purposes. If your interested let me know.

Hi. We are new traders in here but we can supply DIXCEL brakes. They are knocking the socks off all the other big brands in Japan at the moment. I have three suggestions. If you don't track, then the DIXCEL ES pads will be perfect. Low dust, low noise, high performance and durable. These will work fine on track for the more novice driver - more experienced drivers and driver with R rated rubber should look at Z type pads. They are cheap too. From £64.00 inc cat for the front and £55.00 for the rear. If you are looking specifically for low dust the the DIXCEL M type would be up your street. These are very hard wearing pads with fast road credentials. They are extremely low dust however it's impossible to eliminate dust. More expensive initially but you will get plenary of life out of them. £150.00 inc vat for front or rear If you are more of a track hooligan we have the perfect track / street crossover pad. Incredible initial bite and controllability with a fade resistance of 850 degrees C. Being a street pad they work from cold so none of this warming up nonsense - you can feel confident letting your less experienced other half drive the car. They produce less dust than OEM when street driven, civilised and refined in their behaviour. More expensive again but worth it if you are looking for a pad that can do everything. Front £216.00 rear £185.00 Let me knew if you have any questions. :-)

Humm had trouble accessing the forum and posting a new topic today from my browser so I have posted this from tapatalk. I wondered if that's caused the issue. Saying that the post looks great with on here but it has embedded the links. Any ideas mods? Edited for spelling errors

Here at Burn! Motorsport, as the Distributor for DIXCEL in Europe we love brakes and the science that makes them work. When taking on the Distribution we spent a lot of time learning about how they work and how to best make your choice in pad and disc. Over the next few days I hope to post some useful information about what we have learnt from our guys in Japan. Firstly the Brake Pad When you exceed the capability of the OEM brake pads it's best to replace for something that better suits your needs and applications. There is often a misconception that you need to go to a 'race compound' to improve the braking performance. This is not true and race products shouldn't be used on the road - they can be very damaging to the rotors when outside the correct operating temperatures, which causes excess ferrious dust, noise and premature failure of the rotors. Coefficient of friction is the measure of the ratio of the force of the friction between two surfaces and the force pressing them together. This matters because if you have too much then the brakes are very hard to control and if you have too little you won't be able to achieve enough braking performance to stop. It is important to find a pad that has suitable coefficient of friction whilst being able to maintain it at various temperatures, allowing it to reach its coefficient of friction as soon as you stamp on the pedal. Fade resistance is the next characteristic to consider. Brake fade occurs in high temperatures when resin material in the pad vaporises. This creates a film between the pad and rotor reducing coefficient of friction. In general an OEM pad will have a fade resistance of about 300-350 degrees Celsius. Performance pads obviously have a much higher fade resistance, but this can come with an issue. Many high performance pads will only stabilise when they exceed a certain temperature giving poor performance from cold. When choosing pads another common misconception is wear. People tend to believe that when you use a performance pad it will are faster. This is neither true nor false. This is because pad wear rate is different at different temperatures. A performance pad will be more resistant to wear at higher temperatures and an OEM pad will be more resistant at lower temperatures. You need to chose the pad that suits your type of driving best. This chart below shows different pads wear rates under different temperatures Brake Rotors (discs) Brake rotors are a little less complicated as the same rules of Coefficient of Friction that apply to the pads also apply to the rotors, but with rotors they don't really come in too many different compounds. With brake rotors it is about choosing the best rotor for your application. A basic OEM rotor will conform to certain tolerances, when an OEM rotor is exposed to more extreme forces the rotor may become unstable and a suffer warpage or cracking - This is caused by weaknesses in the Residual Stress. Residual Stress is a structural weakness that occurs in the casting process of iron, the main material used in brake discs. During normal street-use, residual stress does not cause any problems with the discs. When the discs are used at race circuits at high temperature conditions for an extensive amount of time, the residual stresses within the disc can lead to thermal cracking and deformation. Residual stress is relieved by a heat treatment process to prevent thermal cracking and deformation from occurring. Heat Treatment Process can be applied to any discs to relieve the Residual Stress from the casting process. We offer The DIXCEL heat treated discs to customers planning on using their car on the circuit. The advantage of the heat treated disc is increased durability.The heat treated discs have better protection against thermal cracking, juddering, and distortion. The DIXCEL heat treatment process takes place over a 24 hour period. Starting from room temperature the heat is stepped up very slowly until the optimum temperature has been reached and then held for a number of hours and finally the heat is reduced again very slowly. The result is a far more stable disc for circuit use. The chart below shows a comparison of heat treated vs non heat treated. non-heat treated disc heat treated disc Crack resistance When a one-make series Honda DC5 Integra is driven at 2min 10sec/lap on the Motegi race circuit Hairline cracks occur on the braking surface after 1 hour of use. Hairline cracks occur on the braking surface after 2 hours of use. When an street legal Honda DC5 Integra is driven at 2min 20sec/lap on Motegi race circuit Hairline cracks occur on the braking surface after 2 hours of use. Hairline cracks occur on the braking surface after 5 hours of use. Judder resistance When a one-make series Honda DC5 Integra is driven at 2min 10sec/lap on the Motegi race circuit Minor juddering (vibrations) occur after 1 hours of use. Minor juddering (vibrations) occur after 2 hours of use. When an street legal Honda DC5 Integra is driven at 2min 20sec/lap on Motegi race circuit Minor juddering (vibrations) occur after 2 hours of use. No juddering (vibrations) occur after 4 hours of use. Cast Iron and Carbon are the two main Brake Disc Materials. The benefit of carbon is its excellent high thermal resistance and it is lightweight. But as it is very expensive it generally only gets used by race teams and in high value motorsport. DIXCEL have chosen their own cast iron mix which is higher is carbon content than your run of the mill OEM disc. They also offer a 20% Higher Carbon mix in their FCR FP/FS series of discs that have been heat treated. These are more expensive due to the high carbon content but they are much more durable on the circuit and resistant to cracks and warpage. The FCR FP/FS rotors were developed for endurance racing and under severe conditions. They have excelled and are now the favorite among many race series around the world. Slot or not to Slot That is the question! Generally more slots the higher operating friction level, but increases air noise and faster pad wear. It is another common misconception that to increase the performance of the brakes you must run slotted rotors. However we often recommend plain rotors to customers with the correctly selected pads to exceed their braking performance needs. Often much better value for money can be achieved using a plain rotor as it will not wear out the pads as quickly. If you run them then which direction to run your slots? If you made it this far well done! We could have gone into much more detail. However i do tend to bore myself sometime so I dread to think what you guys must think of me! Any questions fire away! Anthony

From my experiences with the S2000's rather than raising the differential to prevent it premature failure it was possible to just space the driveshaft on the inner CV joint to spread the shafts and limit the excessive movement wear. Maybe this could help? It's a reported problem on other forums too.

Hi, we love brakes here! There are so many options and variables when it comes to brakes. We find most of the time it's just the pads letting the whole systems down. When you exceed the capability of the OEM brake pads it's best to replace for something that better suits your needs and applications. There is often a misconception that you need to go to a 'race compound' to improve the braking performance. This is not true and race products shouldn't be used on the road - they can be very damaging to the rotors when outside the correct operating temperatures, which causes excess dust, noise and premature failure of the rotors. Coefficient of friction is the measure of the ratio of the force of the friction between two surfaces and the force pressing them together. This matters because if you have too much then the brakes are very hard to control and if you have too little you won't be able to achieve enough braking performance. It is important to find a pad that has suitable coefficient of friction whist being able to maintain it at various temperatures, allowing it to reach its coefficient of friction as soon as you stamp on the pedal. Fade resistance is the next characteristic to consider. Brake fade occurs in high temperatures when resin material in the pad vaporises. This creates a film between the pad reducing coefficient friction. In general an OEM pad will have a fade resistance of about 300-350 degrees Celsius. Performance pads obviously have a much higher fade resistance. But this can come with an issue. Many performance pads will only stabilise when they exceed a certain temperature giving poor performance form cold. Lastly (for now) when choosing pads another common misconception is wear. People tend to believe that when you use a performance pad it will are faster. This is neither true nor false. His is because pad wear rate is different at different temperatures. A performance pad will be more resistant to wear at higher temperatures and an OEM pad will be more resistant at lower temperatures. You need to chose the pad that suits your type of driving best. This chart shows different pads wear rates under different temperatures Disc rotors and brake fluid are a whole new chapter and I'll post some more in depth stuff in our trader section tomorrow. Anthony